Not sure if this is a repost, but definately worth a look. http://www.mototechnique.com/250GTO_p1.htm
WOW ! don't know if it is a repost, but I had not seen it so Thank You ! They seem to be doing extremely good and careful work, I am sure the car will be spectacular when finished. I was kind of sad after seeing the first 2 pictures though, the car seemed in nice original condition with very respectable paint at least from the 2 "before" pictures as they brought the car into the shop. All I could think was how much history they are destroying, they are doing a great job but some cars deserve restoration and some cars deserve to be left alone. This one was a "leave it alone as a piece of history" in my opinion. When they are finished it will be far better than it ever was when it left the factory and that is great, I own 2 cars like that myself but I also own a 71 year old car still sporting her original from the factory paint and that is not just patina, that is history. Either way, the car is awesome and so is the work they are doing ! great post.
I was fortunate enough to see this car in the flesh last summer. In fact it was the day of the London bombings. I purchased my 250 PF Coupe from 3527's previous owner. During the visit I was asked if I wanted to see something "special". Five minutes later I was looking at this car parked next to a beautiful 274/GTB4 and being told its history (with Scuderia Filipinetti I believe). 6 GTO was about the most original car I had ever seen. It wore some minor dings and scuffs but looked all the better for it. Beautiful. I took some photos on my phone (I apologise now for the quality). I had decided not to post these before but now the car has changed hands it seems OK to do so. Was a very memorable day for lots of reasons. Good and bad. Darren. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Not sure about that. This is the car before restoration Its a UK car reg no: 6 GTO Image Unavailable, Please Login
Has anyone done the digital scanning that they use? Anyone know if this technique is available in the US? Cost? I might be interested in doing this to one of my cars. Thank you Alberto
In Godfrey Eaton's book 'Ferrari' are a couple of pictures of 6 GTO, and it is identified as Mr. Nelson's car.....however, the front end is different. Rather than the rectangular lights astride the oval grille, he has chrome overriders, or bumperettes if you will. Wish I could post a pic. Which is the original design of this s/n? Thanks much, Neil
One wonders why then they are restoring it at all ... like you say it did not need it? BTW: Who trimmed it ... that surely is not original (ie. carpet, door coverings, etc.)? Pete
The other thing that really concerns me about this restoration is that they are using the English rolling wheel to make the new panels (or atleast that is what the pictures show) ... this (I believe) is 100% wrong for a Ferrari of this period. Replacement panels should be 100% hammered out like the Italians did back then. I can't understand such a respected company devaluing this car like this? Pete
I didn't see them using an English wheel on the panels (although some of the smaller bits they welded in on the original body looked like they had some help) so I'll reserve judgment on that one. I wouldn't want to weld on a crooked, hand-beaten edge, FWIW.
Refer: http://www.mototechnique.com/250GTO_p5.htm, picture titled: Wheeling up repair panel. So they were making new panels using technology that was not used when making the original. Now whoopy, but with body panels most people (like Hietbrink's) do not roll new panels for old Ferraris ... but hammer them just like Scagletti would have, etc. Pete
You got me there, I didn't see that pic (right above it is a caption about hand-beaten panels) so maybe I skipped right over it. Disclaimer: I have no working knowledge of panel beating, what follows below is just speculation. I can't imagine making a complete panel on an english wheel-- whenever I've seen it, it's used to create a gentle bend in the metal, and it's usually nothing more than a couple feet in length. I think the machine you're thinking of is one that has more of a hammering motion which would produce a faster result than Luigi banging over a leather cushion. English wheels are very old tech and do require a skillful touch to master.
We are having a miss-communication Italian body creators did not use an English wheel, they hammered their panels out. They made complete panels by making little ones and then welding them together ... I assume this has to happen for panels made using an English wheel also. The point I was trying to make is that they should NOT be using an English wheel restoring a Ferrari. Most companies stick to the hammering all the way method for Ferraris because everybody can tell the difference. There is no doubt that the English wheel is superior (although Hietbrink's panels hand beaten are amazing), but most Ferrari collectors 'get off' on seeing all the little hammer marks. It's the imperfections that make a car like this interesting ... now somebody will be able to spot that that internal panel has been replaced, 'cause it will not look like the original article. Original Ferrari bodies by all accounts were rather poorly made ... especially the race ones. They used to hide the hammer marks on the inside with a thick black goo ... thus if I was going to fork out $$$$$$'s for a GTO I'd want to see evidence of Scagletti hammer marks (or atleast reproduced equivalent marks), etc. Pete
I agree that the imperfections make the auto, but it looks like these guys were fixing bad repair jobs on top of the "poorly-made" originals. I didn't see a lot of replacement sheetmetal on this car and nearly all of the original hammer marks are apparent in the bare-metal version-- The owner isn't going for a RL-type restoration. They aren't forming "new" panels, just trying to match with the originals. If an English wheel makes it a bit easier then I say they go for it as it's obviously better (opinion) than what was repaired before. It still looks like they had quite a bit of work to do after it was put in place..
You guys are tuff on mototechniques. I am sure they will do a fine job. Check out this site. Its a bit slow, but worth the wait. www brandoli.it. You can choose english version.
Hi Guys' have followed your posting with interest and have re-worked some of the phrasing on our Web site so as to help visitors follow our progress with clarity. Couple of things which might interest you. 1 , Everything is deteriorating ( including ourselves ). Patina is great but we have to accept that these old race cars were built to win races and not to last forever. To leave these fantastic cars as they are would be a selfish act which will preclude future generations from enjoying them, ultimatley it is not an option as at some time in the near future the bullet will have to be bitten. 2 , English wheeling machines were present in many Italian body shops but there is no evidence that Italian artisans ever mastered them, During the 1960's Italy was a third world country, labour and hammers were cheap and plentiful. An English Wheel can completely form a panel and the only purpose of hammering / Flippering is to level and to work harden the welded seam. 3 , Alvin at Hietbrinks in Holland does in fact use an English wheeling machine, I know because I sold it to him. In fact it has been my pleasure to paint several cars which he had re - bodied and I have to say that his panel work was so perfect we could not see his working marks on either side of his panel work, Alvin is held in the highest regard here. 4 , Contary to popular wisdom we are of the opinion that it is " truer " to use an English wheel when fabricating the necessary repair patches as this will allow future owners / experts to spot the extent of replacement metal and judge the car accordingly. 5 , Race cars were built light weight and no underbody protection was applied during manufacture and that is the crux of my case. Bare alloy next to steel results in Electrolysis, pure and simple. Any lashings of underseal which covered hammer marks was in my experience applied latterly. 6 , Finally, things have moved on. Untill the mid 1970s specialist skills were centred at the point of manufacturer and you would be hard pushed to find a local panel beater who could hand fabricate and weld in alloy, how things have changed with the skill centre moving away from the point of manufacture to the " cottage industries ". Standards have risen, the quality of Italian workmanship during the 1960s can at best be called crude ( it wasn't their fault it was what their economy would support and that's how they could make race cars so quickly) we would be laughed out of business if we worked to 1960s standards. Personally I have never seen or heard any one who still makes a body panel with a hammer apart from " Fred in the Shed " don't think he got to work on to many GTO Ferraris though. 7 , Finally, Finally: remember that if you do not know the answer to a question don't make up an answer, ask some one informed and make a balanced judgment, standing by to take your call, Kindest regards to all, Kevin O'Rourke. Ps, Cheers to CMY for his balanced views.
Kevin "Telaio" Welcome to Fchat and what a Great first post, any chance of some more photo's or maybe some background on the restoration?
Teiaio: Thank you for the reply. It looks like you have a wonderful shop and do amazing work. Thank you for great web site showing your work.
Hi Team, many thanks for your kind words which are much appreciated. Please be advised that i have just added a 7th page to our GTO web page www.mototechnique.com and will continue to add photos as we progress.We are now finishing all the " tricky " stuff and will shortly be working on the more exciting stages namely re - fitting the bodywork followed by painting. The purpose of showing these photos is two fold, first we all get to share many images of " The Icon car " which are not normally available and two all work is carried out in the public domain so that it can be seen that the new owner has chosen to CONSERVE rather than quick fix re - body ( which in fact would be cheaper and quicker ). I hope that fellow enthusiasts will take time to appreciate the photos and to witness that one of the lads working confidently on this project is but 22 years old, hopefully he will pass on his skills to next generation of Artisans who will restore and save all those cars currently residing in a state of " patina " Cheers to all fellow enthusiast, Kindest regards Kev. Ps, should anyone have any concerns / sensible questions please feel free to contact me via, [email protected]
