Ferrari vs Lambo - a frank discussion with special guest Allan Lambo

I don't know of any Lamborghini owners that don't bemoan the weight of their cars. So while you may not like the looks of the new F cars, Lamborghini needs to shed some fat. As for track times it looks like Porky Pig jr. bested the 430 at Hockenheim by 1 min. 11.8 secs vs. 1 min. 12.7 secs, hardly a clear cut victory. At the ring PPJ beats the 430 by 7.52 vs. 7.55 a 3 second differential which is meaningful. An Italian magazine tests the P GT against the SE and 430 at a track I do not recognize and here are the results: P Gt 117.349, SE 117.861 and the 430 at 119.307. The fact that the SE is within .512 of the much lighter and much more powerful GT raises some serious doubts about the credibility of this particular test. Top gear has the 430 beating PPJ. The problem with quoting times from these sources is that we don't know if these tests occured on the same day with the same driver. If not, what were the conditions of the track, the ambient temperature, did the 430 have bridgestones or pirellis etc. etc..There are too many unknown variables to determine who wins this contest. Hopefully C&D or MT will conduct a head to head test.

 

We DO know the test conditions. Do your homework. On Top Gear, the Gallardo was tested on a wet track. For the Nubrugring times, the test conditions are ALWAYS published and readily available. The test with the CGT also posted the test conditions, as do the Hockenheim tests.

The Gallardo is approximately 100 pounds heavier than the F430, hardly a "pig". Get your facts straight.

I do agree that the Murci could stand to lose some weight, but when the next iteration of the car holds 700hp from the revised 6.5L engine, I don't think too many people will be worried about the weight.

IF your facts were true, it would make the F430's track times far more embarassing than they actually are.

 

Lambo guys... where have you been? Dont you know the Ferrari 550/575 and 612 are all lightweights too? The new 599 is going to weigh approx 4,000 lbs, another lightwight on the horizon......

And yet we have another Dancing Donkey patron comparing 3 real compros of the G and 430, and still declaring a conspiracy. I cant wait for the SE to be tested, and put even more fuel on the fire. And by the way, please remember, PORKY PIG himself, the Murcielago has recorded a 7:43.5 at the Ring, ( incase yo dont know, thats 12 sec faster than the lightweight Donkey) also recorded a 1:12.0 at Hockenheim, (thats .7 sec faster than the Donkey again).

 

Who is we? You and your porky pig apologists. Of course "we" know the conditions at the Top Gear track, but we don't know the conditions of the Nurburgring track on the days the 2 cars were tested do we? Why don't we know, because the test conditions aren't reported.
Since we're on the subject of homework, your assignment is to translate the German and Italian articles from which these tests were taken. Then you can report back and tell us all about the track conditions including the ambient temperature.
The 430 weighs exactly 140 lbs. less than ppj. And that is a significant difference. As for porky pig getting a bump to 700 hp, I'm not impressed. It doesn't take a lot of talent to throw more horsepower at bloated car to make it perform better. Lamborghini is taking a page out of yesterday's muscle car era. If you don't know how to correct a problem, give it more horsepower.

 

Who cares about the 550, 575 and 612, not me. That's like comparing 2 sumo
wrestlers and then bragging about running the 100 yard dash in 15 sec. vs. 16 sec. I look forward to a head to head comparison of porky pig jr. vs the 430 (a car whose virtues you praised) and then a comparison of the SE vs. the up and coming stradale. To quote you, a 118 mph car is not impressive. I agree.

 

the 599 weighs 3517 lbs, quite a departure from 4000. Further, it weighs 343 lbs less than a 575. Porky indeed.

--Dan

 

118mph car is not impressive, nor was the 116 that Car and Driver got for a 430.

 

Until you get one on a scale you have no idea what they weigh. Ferrari is...oh how do you say...creative with their published dry weights, and always have been.

 

The "up coming Stradale". Whatever. When (and if) that car comes, Lambo will already be onto their next iteration of the Gallardo in the works for release in 2007. Another pig to rape your donkey, again.

 

You've just made my point. Conditions have a lot to do with how a car performs. That test was conducted in the sweltering heat and the times for all the cars tested were universally bad. As you are aware other magazines have tested the 430 and the results were much different: Motor Trend, Car & Driver and R&T were all able to achieve 120 mph trap speeds. I've seen the G car achieve a trap speed as low as 116 mph but I don't think that's common. You've spent some time behind the wheel of a 430 F1 and you were quite impressed. I believe it was you that said it was a better car than the G car. A better comparison would be the Murcie vs. the 430 F1 and although the Murcie will beat it the 430, the 430 is one of the most significant high performance cars to come out in a long time. It's that good. By the way, get me a G car without AWD that weighs 3200 - 3300 lbs. and I'm all over that. Cheers.

 

Ferrari tend to quote dry weight for their car, so don't get overly excited about the "weight loss"

 

I'm still waiting for your homework assignment. Class is about to begin again, so don't be late. The F430 is a better car and is universally acclaimed as being such. The very magazines you quote indicate that it accelerates faster, brakes quicker has better slalom times etc...and is technologically miles ahead of ppj. ppj had its way with the 360 but that was then. Get over it.

 

I said the 430 was a better driving car than the early Gallardo, but I also said the Se was a better car than the 430. I also said, that for the price difference, I would still most likely rather have an early gallardo than a 430, especially if someone had to pay over mSRP.

 

To each their own.

 

Piton,

Whenever Allan rears his head on this site, a posse or disciples quickly forms. While I have no respect for Allan's style, I do respect his knowledge, and I accept the fact that he has first-hand experience with the cars in question. That allows me to understand, if not agree, with all his opinions. Same goes for Clax. I can read his profile, know that he has owned both brands, and it adds some credibility to his comments.

But your profile is blank. You have stated a number of facts on this board, and certainly offered lots of opinions. Would you mind sharing your background, your previous and present cars, etc.

Bob

 

Surprise, surprise. Bcmarly's profile is blank. Another exotic car guru here to school everyone. "Class is about to begin." Gimmie a break. Yet another guy who knows everything about these cars without driving them (let alone owning them). I don't even know why I waste my time with people like this. I suppose in some respects it humors me when I take my cars out of the garage and drive them, while he pounds out his rhetoric on the keyboard.

 

OK I grew up in Paris, France and fell in love with hot cars at an early age. My Dad owned a nice collection of cars and I caught the bug and have tried to carry on the family tradition. I love high performance cars and am not particularly tied to anyone brand. I have owned lamborghinis, ferraris, maseratis and corvettes. I have driven all of the ferrari super cars including the Enzo and have spent a ton of time behind the wheel of the McLaren F1. Growing up in Paris and attending the American School of Paris I became best friends with Mansour who eventually purchased the McLaren Formula 1 team. As owner of the company (he has since sold 49% to Mercedes) he approved the development and production of the McLaren F1 road car and he owns 2 of them. Hence my time behind the wheel of this super car. If you happened to be in Montecito in the mid- '90's you might have seen him and I terrorizing the streets in his silver F1. He was allowed to keep it there for the summer. I am a huge fan of F1 and have been since the '70's.

 

You'll be waiting a long time. I'll be driving my cars while you play internet bench racer. The fact of the matter is that most of the tests conducted at the reknowned tracks post track conditions. You seem to be very familiar with data, just not so familiar with actual hands-on driving and ownership. I'll leave the data to you, and I'll take care of the ownership.

 

What's that smell? Hmmmm.

What do you "own" now, sport?

 

Bob--I agree with your comments re: Allan. I don't like his style, but once past that he does have valuable experience and adds to the discussion. Plus, he provides a valuable realty check to many of our rossa colored glasses. I think Piton is a little like Allan's doppleganger. While I don't know his experience, he has had some insightful comments as well. But I agree a profile would be nice.

 

You are way out of your league. I'll leave it you to drive the entry level cars. But you've changed the subject again. You're assignment was to back up your assertions which you have yet to prove. Try and focus here and stay on task. By the way you've just described mako who seems to carry quite a bit of weight on your board, go figure.

 

F40 - Now get back to your assignment. No more deflections.

 

This thread is unintentionally funny, but ultimately academic.
The only thing that really matters is who's holding your hand when you take your last breath.

 

And what league would that be, big shooter? Tell you what. Tell us what league you are in. Post pics of your current cars with proof that they belong to you. You are coming across as any regular internet chump that wants to play with the big boys. Until you prove otherwise, that is exactly what you are. A chump wannabe. And something tells me there will be no proof forthcoming.

By the way, I enjoyed your comment about being in Montecito in the mid 90's. That almost sounds believable. The mid 90's is a quite a long time to catch a glimpse of an F1 in the streets. Maybe you guys drove it for a few years straight. That car must have plenty of miles.

And don't try to give me tasks or orders. Who are you again? Yeah, that's what I thought.

Give us proof, big man.

 

Prove it.