Is there any interest in a turbo kit for 308's

Basically. You'll also need a blow-off valve, hours and hours to get the jetting right and a boost retard system for the ignition....and the things or your list are not trivial...40 hours to do them maybe?

Again, Norwood kit is about $7200 or so, not 10 or 11. It's another $4K for the intercooler and you can spend 3-10K on fuel injection depending on what you do.

 

I suppose you are right in the fact that they are not trivial, and people deserve to be paid for their R&D work. I am just wondering how much the Norwood kit costs compared to say a similar kit for a Supra or some other rice burner. Are we being charged a premium due to the name Ferrari?

If you were building a single turbo set up, using stock carbs (revised jetting of course), what turbo charger would you get for say, a 10 psi boost?

 

Its definitely a premium since its for a Ferrari. If you were to do a simple search online you would see that for the jap cars its much cheaper. Then again, there are tens of thousands of jap cars and only mere thousands of Ferraris.

 

There are hundreds of ways to turbo a 308 - over the past 25 years we have blown through carbs, put carbs in pressurized boxes, put carbs on the intake of the turbo, run modified CIS, run anolog Air Sensor/Air Research efi, used Haltech F3 & E6, used Accells stuff, and Motec. We have done single and twin turbos and a long time ago did one with a Sprintex blower. Doing the mechanicals of putting a turbo or a blower on a 308 is not that big of a deal as long as you have a well designed package and can produce high quality parts. The 308's a bit tight in the engine bay because of the transverse mounting. There was at one time a shop that made cast iron manifold for a twin turbo configuation on the 308, we used them on the Road and Track car we did in the late 80's but it made for a difficult fitment in the car because of the lack of space between the engine the passenger firewall - as you can imagine. It also left little room for an intercooler so we ended up modifying the deck lid to gain some room. The problem with using carbs is the tuning issue, the jets now have to cover more of a load range than they can do effectively, as well as the other issues previously mentioned. None of the injected car ignitions are suitable for blown applications. Most of the turboed Ferraris we see with engine problems are a result of too much timing, unless you want to run supper fat you have to be able to pull the timing way down. The stock headgaskets and rings won't stay in very long at all under even light detonation. The problem that brought us to the expensive route of the Motec on all our systems is getting the most resolution possible to make the cars drive truly well in all circumstances. We have never had clients complain about the power levels of our systems, it has always been driveability and making them 'perfect' to drive around town. As you go up in boost level your resolution goes down so this gets to be a big issue. On a low boost system it is less of a concern, I have been recomending to people that want to install our turbo system that they use one of Nick's Electromotive EFI systems to cut the cost. The one setup that I have never tried that could bring the cost of doing this down and still achieve very good results in to run the stock CIS with some sort of 'micro fueler' as used on so many 930's, along with a good programable ingintion such as the Electromotive. I would not be surprise if someone has done this, and given the chance I certainly would for a low boost application.

As for our system price:

$7210 for the base turbo kit - includes a complete exhaust less the front header with your choice of muffler, cat. converter, single, or dual free flow exit pipes, clutch pack, silicone hose, T-bolt clamps, standard cart. turbo, all the intake ducting, all the oil plumbing, wastgate, boost regulator, and thremal coating all the 304 stainless exhaust and powder coating all the intake stuff. Retail pricing on the parts is $4165 and we bill 35 hrs to fabricate the system to reach the total of $7210.

$3770 for the air to water intercooler kit

$8923.83 for the Motec kit

And we have all the engine parts you could want - copper head gaskets, pistons, rings, valve spring kits, rods, etc.

There is no 'premium' because it is a Ferrari - unlike the kits for the import market these kits are made per order and are completely hand fabricated. The price also does not include any R&D cost at this point, that cost has been covered a few dozen cars ago, the price comes from the retail pricing of all the parts and material plus our time at its usual billing rate.

There has always been intrest in turbo systems for the 308, BAE had a system available as a kit around 1983, and price is always an issue. My approach was to do a system that I could sell as a kit, do it the way I think it should be, leave room for change to meet a clients specific needs, and then price it out based on the cost to produce each individual unit knowing the R&D was done years ago.

At the end of the day weather you put one of my kits on your 308, have Mark do a blower, or someone elses set-up, a properly done blown 308 makes one hell of car.

James Patterson
Norwood Performance

 

Excellent post!

 

Ditto!

 

James:

What kind of hp/torque does your system produce? Is there much of a performance difference between 2 valve and 4 valve applications?

 

Anybody else have done this to there 308? There site says 12 dozen have been made. Any pictures? Results? Thanks

 

Also, I don't think the website (NORWOOD) has any info on the 308 kit.

 

You will not find a beter shop than Norwood Performance. They have proven themselves to be the leader in Ferrari forced induction. If you want reliable
hp? Key word here is reliable. These are the guys! Bob Norwood and James Patterson have made some incredible engines over the years. They know what works. If you are ever in Vegas look me up and see for yourself.

Cheers

 

That's the important part like you said. It sounds so good i can taste it. I e-mail him and hope he gets back to me. Can you get away with spending $10gs or do you need to do the $8 too?