Big OOPS! Help Needed | FerrariChat

Big OOPS! Help Needed

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by dogue, Jan 25, 2006.

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  1. dogue

    dogue Formula Junior

    Sep 2, 2001
    967
    Phoenix, AZ
    Full Name:
    Terry
    I had a water leak under the plenum of my 1982 308. The only way to get to the hose was to take the plenum off, well I dropped one of the little metal spacers into the intake, is there anyway of getting it out, short of taking the whole engine apart? Any ideas? I heard it fall further when trying to fish it out with a magnet, but my magnet cannot make it passed the valve. The spacer is 12mm in diameter and 5mm thick.

    Terry
     
  2. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
    Sponsor

    Apr 1, 2004
    16,457
    Dumpster Fire #31
    Full Name:
    SMG
    get a donut shaped magnet that would be the same size as the washer. tie a string or fishing line to it and try topside, otherwise pull the sparkplug on the cylinder you think it dropped into and fish it from there.

    hope that helps.
     
  3. Mark 328

    Mark 328 Formula Junior

    Nov 6, 2003
    510
    Orange, Ca
    Full Name:
    Mark Foley
    How about a shop vac?
     
  4. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
    BANNED

    Jul 22, 2003
    8,520
    Melbourne
    Full Name:
    Phil Hughes
    I have a flexible borescope. It can be put down spark plug holes, or any hole larger than 10mm, and you can simply look for it.

    I bought the scope from snap on, but it's an australian product, but you may be able to find one locally... ask your wifes gynaecologist if you have to!

    To retrieve it, In extreme cases, I have ground a tiny magnet into a "dog bone" shape, twist lockwire around it and make it about 2 ft long, then send it in after it!!
     
  5. bwassam

    bwassam Formula Junior

    Jan 3, 2005
    635
    North Bend, Oregon
    Full Name:
    Robert Wassam
    Good luck with getting the spacer out.

    I don't have any fresh ideas. I have to compliment you guys for creativity in getting things out of an engine. I'd be looking at pulling a head and cussing all the way. Now I know better.

    In general terms I plug the intakes anytime I'm working around them to prevent things like this from happening. I usually use a shop rag. Now I think I'll find a correct size ball to use instead.

    Bob Wassam
     
  6. dogue

    dogue Formula Junior

    Sep 2, 2001
    967
    Phoenix, AZ
    Full Name:
    Terry
    I do also, but in this case it happened when removing the plenum box, the spacers sit at the bottom of the box so when you remove it you always risk one falling, I should have had a few extra hands and eyes as I lifted the thing up, but I didn't.

    I have been trying to fish it out with a magnet attached to a string, but the valve is made of steel so the magnet will not pass the valve. I am going to see if I can borrow a scope tomorrow from this shop down the street.

    I thought about the shop vac idea, I might try this it seems like it might work.

    Thanks for all the help.
     
  7. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

    Oct 19, 2001
    16,078
    Arlington Heights IL
    Full Name:
    Kenneth
    Maybe you can use a compresser to blow air in and it will pop out?

    Ken
     
  8. Prova7

    Prova7 Formula Junior

    Nov 17, 2003
    257
    Dallas, TX
    Full Name:
    DamonB
    The shop vac works surprisingly often. Try it first.
     
  9. Meister

    Meister F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 27, 2001
    5,516
    Duluth, MN
    Full Name:
    The Meister
    The only thing I would add to the shop vac idea is to make sure it (the vac) is cleaned out first.

    I'd be sure to make sure the vac was spotless inside so that (1.) you don't have to search through all sorts of other junk to find the spacer and (2.) along the same line to make sure you have the spacer you are looking for.

    Good luck it's happened to us all!
     
  10. dogue

    dogue Formula Junior

    Sep 2, 2001
    967
    Phoenix, AZ
    Full Name:
    Terry
    How large are the spark plug holes? Would the 12mm spacer fit through that hole?
     
  11. Matt Morgan, "Kermit"

    Matt Morgan, "Kermit" Formula Junior

    Nov 12, 2003
    405
    Ferndale, WA
    A couple of thoughts:

    1. a small scribe,typically the type found in hardware stores. They are pen sized and usually have a small magnet attached to one end. Push the end into a piece of hose, and it will get into spark plug holes.

    2. neck the vacuum down to a smaller size, typically 1/4" (like aquarium hose) and go fishing with that. It may take a few tries to get the hose to get ahold of the side of the piece, but it doesn't take long. That way you don't have to clean the shop vac, and you can see it when you pull the hose out. Make sure you don't overheat the vacuum, as they usually use the air flow to cool the motor. They will easily run for several minutes though.

    Both methods work well, I know. Dont ask me how, LOL!
     
  12. bretm

    bretm F1 Rookie

    Feb 1, 2001
    4,577
    Northern NJ
    Full Name:
    Bret
    Above question... the spark plug holes are 14mm IIRC; a good place to start.
     
  13. jwise

    jwise Formula Junior

    Apr 2, 2003
    781
    Portland Maine
    Is it steel, or aluminum? I can't remember.
     
  14. dogue

    dogue Formula Junior

    Sep 2, 2001
    967
    Phoenix, AZ
    Full Name:
    Terry
    The spacer is steel.
     
  15. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

    Oct 29, 2004
    5,379
    NWA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    What a horrible flash back. I was barely 16, and had just picked up a three duece carb and manifold for my Pontiac GTO. I got the carbs all worked over and set up, and had painted the manifold, but now it was getting dark. In taking off the 4bbl intake I dropped a 5/16 lock washer down an intake port. I spent until 2 am being attacked by mosquitoes trying everything I could think of. Magnets were virtually useless in an iron engine. I tried wads of gum, grease on a cloth wad wrapped in wire, wire hooks, air hose, vacuum, until I threw up my hands. All I needed was this idiot who kept telling me all night long to just fire it up and it would blow out the exhaust. Never listen to idiots. It didnt blow out either, so next day I took off the head and had a nice scratch on the cylinder.

    If it actually got past the valve, it will be sitting on top of the piston on the lowest side. But make sure its not resting inside the port sitting on the intake valve. I dont think your valves open much past 8mm, and how big is that spacer? Odds are the valve probably isnt fully open anyway, so its probably hiding in there. Just keep fishing. If you can confirm it fell inside, put the piston at the bottom of the cylinder and go in with a small magnet on a flexible wire through the spark plug hole. It should go right to the bottom and find it. Just keep trying and dont lose patience, youll get it out. Heck, at that angle, it may even work to just put a small telescopic margnet down there, so you have more directional control. My nephew bought me this cheap fiber optic thing that fits on a mini maglight, and I thought it was a joke. But the stupid thing works. I can light up the inside of a cylinder pretty good with it. Good luck man, were all pulling for you.
     
  16. dogue

    dogue Formula Junior

    Sep 2, 2001
    967
    Phoenix, AZ
    Full Name:
    Terry
    THANK YOU TO EVERYONE, a combination of all of your suggestions helped me locate the spacer in the cylinder, 4 days of looking and once I spotted it, it took me about 4 minutes to recover it. I was in the process of taking the intake manifold off, so I have a lot of mess on my hands, but now it is all over except for the cleanup.

    Thanks again, I am again a happy Ferrari owner:)
     
  17. Artvonne

    Artvonne F1 Veteran

    Oct 29, 2004
    5,379
    NWA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    Okay, so where was it? did it go down the intake, or run off and hide somewhere else??
     
  18. dogue

    dogue Formula Junior

    Sep 2, 2001
    967
    Phoenix, AZ
    Full Name:
    Terry
    It made it past the valve and into the cylinder. It was down at the bottom of the cylinder. I used a scope for days and could not find anything. I looked in the intake in the cylinder everywhere but nothing, The view was terrible though and I was not satisfied. So I started to take the intake manifold off, removed all the bolts and the waterlines and the thing is just too solid, I could not make it budge. I used liquid wrench on the studs, used a rubber mallet, and nothing would not budge. After a day of frustration I went and talked to Bill at GT Car Parts, he showed me a disassembled motor and I inspected it the best I could and decided to go look some more. I purchased a little flexible wand with a really bright light on the end, and it lit things up really well, so with that and the scope I looked and looked until it was right there plain as day. I went to a craft store and purchased a necklace fastener that was made of magnets, they were really strong magnets with eyelets in them, I hooked it to a thin wire and threaded it through the spark plug hole with a clear plastic tubing and dropped it just perfectly on the spacer and pulled it out. Without the extra light I would never have seen it.

    Terry
     
  19. Mark 328

    Mark 328 Formula Junior

    Nov 6, 2003
    510
    Orange, Ca
    Full Name:
    Mark Foley
    Terry:
    Do you have any suggestions for others to prevent dropping a spacer into the engine? I am considering removing my plenum for paint.

    Anybody's tips would be appreciated.

    Thanks,

    Mark
     
  20. Matt Morgan, "Kermit"

    Matt Morgan, "Kermit" Formula Junior

    Nov 12, 2003
    405
    Ferndale, WA
    To keep from dropping the spacer into the runers, I do it this way:
    loosen the mounting nuts, until there is about 1/8" of thread between the nuts, and the runner. This will allow you to push a piece of cardboard, or plastic, 1 3/4"-2"wide by 3" long, between the rubber gasket and the runner (not between the gasket and plenum) . This way, the spacers cannot get out due to the limited spacing, and once the plastic is in place, the runner is blocked off.
    Try cutting strips out of an old oil container, cheap, and it works!
    HTH
     
  21. dogue

    dogue Formula Junior

    Sep 2, 2001
    967
    Phoenix, AZ
    Full Name:
    Terry
    I had taken this off a few other times and did not have a problem, my mistake this time was getting to anxious. It would always help to have another person watching on the other side of the car. One mechanic suggested that I tack the spacers to the rubber gasket with a little silicone so next time I need to remove it, I will not have an issue.

    Just go slow and the more eyes you have on the posts the better. I wish I had asked the wife to help me lift it up. With two people it is much easier to lift straight up.
     
  22. Mark 328

    Mark 328 Formula Junior

    Nov 6, 2003
    510
    Orange, Ca
    Full Name:
    Mark Foley
    Thanks for the input--I will be careful when I do it.

    Mark
     

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