First Day of Ownership, and now a problem | FerrariChat

First Day of Ownership, and now a problem

Discussion in '308/328' started by LW RedTR, Jan 26, 2006.

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  1. LW RedTR

    LW RedTR Karting

    Jan 12, 2006
    173
    California
    Traded my perfect 03 Dodge Viper in and paid too much for a nice red 88 Testarossa with 17,000 miles. Two owners, local car (maybe). Got it last night.

    When I started it this morning, there was lots of emissions from the rear pipes. Supposedly normal condensation burning off. But the warning buzzer was on, and an idiot light said "cyl 7-12 slow" I called the mechanic, who suggested waiting a few minutes, and turning the car off and restarting. The diagnosis is that there is fuel not burning off in the mufflers.

    Anyone ever have this problem?

    By the way, how much should an annual oil and filter change cost?

    This car had its timing belts changed in 1999 with 7000 miles, and the 15,000 mile done at 14,800 in 2002.

    I intend to drive it. How do I fix this situation? What maintenance should I actually be doing........

    Oh, how do I change my online name to LW RedTR? The viper is now the Testraossa.
     
  2. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2003
    13,477
    Never home
    Full Name:
    Dr. Dumb Ass
    If the belts haven't been done since 1999, I wouldn't drive it until you change them again.
     
  3. Myhorse

    Myhorse Formula Junior

    Oct 31, 2003
    387
    most TR have had this at one time or another
    I am not a mechanic and only a certified mechanic can tell what the problem is.

    Puff of smoke during start - Normal
    Slow down light - both on when starting and off after about 5-10secs

    I had same issue - the solution I opted for was aftermarket exhaust ( capristo) with staright pipes and thermocouplers disconnected ( the temp sensors that run into each cat )

    Honestly the cats on the TR are analogous to being constipated. Just take them off and go for "free flow"
     
  4. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,350
    Indian Wells, California
    Full Name:
    Jon
    If he's in California or another stringent smog inspection state, I wouldn't take off the cats. (Viper fill out your profile so we know where you are - someone on this board can recommend a good independent Ferrari mechanic in your area, I'm sure.)

    Judge is right about the belts - I just bought a 328 that had its last belt service in 2000. I had those done immediately, along with the water pump. So, I was in your shoes - but without the immediate problem - and I recommend you consult a Ferrari-experienced mechanic. You might be able to troubleshoot this with help on the Technical board, but with 1 day of TR ownership I'm thinking you don't want to try your own 30K service.

    If it's just one Slow Down light, that doesn't sound normal. Don't drive it like that.

    (And -- congrats on the car despite the rough start. TR's are gorgeous and in general have a good reputation.)
     
  5. sparta49

    sparta49 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Mar 3, 2001
    7,802
    LA
    Full Name:
    Frank
    If the belts have not been changed in 6 years do not drive the car
     
  6. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 4, 2001
    35,278
    Birmingham, AL
    Full Name:
    Tommy
    The most expensive oil and filter change is the first. That's because it includes the ramps you need to buy from Wal-Mart. After that it is just the cost of the oil and filter and thirty minutes in your driveway.
     
  7. mark328

    mark328 Guest

    Jul 30, 2005
    664
    Mi
    Full Name:
    Mark
     
  8. sparta49

    sparta49 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Mar 3, 2001
    7,802
    LA
    Full Name:
    Frank
     
  9. Eric308gtsiqv

    Eric308gtsiqv Formula 3

    Nov 26, 2001
    1,955
    Orange Park, Florida
    Full Name:
    Eric Eiland
    Major service done on my former '85 Testarossa was roughly $8,000 (performed back in '03 IIRC), and this included replacement of the clutch while engine was out -- all work done by an independent mechanic. However, I've heard majors on TR's costing $10k - $12k depending on where the work is done and what extras were done.

    Like others have mentioned, I'd also recommend that you have the 30k major service performed ASAP, and the "slow down" light problem looked into as well.

    Congrats on your TR purchase, and welcome to TR ownership. They can be costly to own / service, but they are a joy to own and drive! Once you get the minor things sorted out, the TR should be rather trouble-free for the next 3 to 5 years.
     
  10. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

    Sep 4, 2001
    12,887
    Cumming, Georgia
    Full Name:
    Franklin E. Parker
    Be sure you negotiate on the price of a major cam belt service. I had one done at FoA in Feb 2003 on my Boxer and negotiated a price of flat fee of $3,000 for labor plus parts. It ended up costing me around $6500 and that included a new water pump and having the entire engine repainted as well. Ferrari dealers will negotiate, you just have to try...don't accept a 'price tag' mentality like at a department store.
     
  11. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,350
    Indian Wells, California
    Full Name:
    Jon
    You can always get another Dodge. It sounds like LT ought to have done more research on the maintenance costs/schedule of a TR before buying the car, but the old "Corvette/Viper/Z-car beats the Ferrari" discussion seems out of place here, and a little defeatist. When he gets the TR up to date, he'll have a pretty amazing car.
     
  12. LW RedTR

    LW RedTR Karting

    Jan 12, 2006
    173
    California

    I wasn't interested in comparing the Viper to the Testarossa. And I agree that I could have done a better job of researching in advance the costs and schedules for maintaining the Testarossa. But I've made the move, and now I need to determine how to take care of what I bought. Ferrari of Los Gatos (Silicon Valley Auto Group) tells me that the buzzer was independent of the 7-12 cylinder slow down warning. The buzzer had to do with the car not knowing that the passenger seat belts were engaged, apparently. They are still looking at why the warning light goes on, but goes off after several minutes when the engine is turned off, then back on. They think it may be an ECU problem, or sensor failure, but will know more on Monday.

    The car was maintained there by its two owners (local car first owned by a doctor in Saratoga, then someone in Hollister) and I'm asking them to look it over, give me a schedule of care, and a sense of costs. They seem very high, but the service manager seems to love the car. I'll know more on Monday.

    Oddly, I asked about the belt change, or major service, and while he said they wouldn't turn down my $10,000, he thought I'd be good for another year (which would certainly be easier on me, even 8 months since I bought it two days ago)

    I appreciate learning what I can on this forum, and putting more effort in. Win, lose, or draw, I really like the mid engine 12 cylinder vehicle, and I don't regret turning in a bullet proof Viper for this 18 year old 12 cylinder.... just a bit unnerved by how quickly I'm running into problems on a local, allegedly clean and in good shape Testarossa.
     
  13. ToddB

    ToddB Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    2,241
    Vancouver B.C./OC
    Full Name:
    Todd
    I agree with the other guys, don't drive this car until the belts are changed.

     
  14. sparta49

    sparta49 F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Mar 3, 2001
    7,802
    LA
    Full Name:
    Frank
    Ask the service manager if he is willing to cover the costs of the damage if the belt breaks if you wait another year to change them. If he refuses then you have your answer. If he is willing to cover the cost of damage from a broken timing belt then get it in writing.
     
  15. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
    Sponsor Owner


    Danger! I'll bet he does!


    I don't know California geography that well, and I might get beotch-slapped for printing this, but have you tried contacting Brian Crall (rifledriver)? He is in San Ramon, and an independant Ferrari tech with more than a slight knowledge of TR's. I think he's pretty damn near a living expert/legend on them actually.



    -Daniel
     
  16. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,350
    Indian Wells, California
    Full Name:
    Jon
    This is good advice. There's nothing wrong about taking a 'classic' Ferrari to a qualified independent.

    You might get another year out of the belts, or you might not. Would you feel OK taking a 200-mile day trip in the car tomorrow?

    My attitude with a new old car is that you don't know the condition of everything on it. I consider the initial 30K service/water pump/fuel line replacement I had done on mine part of the purchase price, psychologically. Otherwise I would have had a nice car to stare at in the garage.
     
  17. mark328

    mark328 Guest

    Jul 30, 2005
    664
    Mi
    Full Name:
    Mark
    When I had my 328 I was advised to have the belts replaced because it was over 7 years or risk having it break and paying $18,000 for a rebuild. All depends if your a gambling man!
     
  18. hardtop

    hardtop F1 World Champ

    Jan 31, 2002
    11,285
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Dave
    There is a mythical used Ferrari out there that "needs nothing". I'm trying to find it.

    These are tempermental beasts but the things you mention are probably no big deal in this case. Bringing the car to Brian Crall is a really good idea and you can get a major service cost estimate which would also be a good idea.

    Dave
     
  19. Birdman

    Birdman F1 Veteran

    Jun 20, 2003
    6,687
    North shore, MA
    Full Name:
    THE Birdman
    DO NOT milk the belts for a year. The chances are 95% that you won't have a problem, but the consequences of the 5% chance of having a problem are too expensive to even consider. Get the belts changed, do the service, fix the cat light, and the car will reward you with no issues or headaches for years, and you can drive the crap out of it and never have a worry.

    Just my $.02

    Also, Brian Crall is the guy for sure. If you are near him, you are lucky. His price will be fair and his work will be second to none.

    Birdman
     
  20. LW RedTR

    LW RedTR Karting

    Jan 12, 2006
    173
    California
    Yes, we've use PM, and been in touch. I intend to meet him in the future, and he seems as though he would be fun to work with. I had a "Viper Tech"for my Viper (an independent) and he treated my car as though it were his own (or better). Brian strikes me as that type of guy from the limited exchanges we've had.

    As it turns out, the ECU for cyls 7-12 was bad. I was told these retail for $2,300 but the dealer is paying for a replacement (but not the other ECU that hasn't failed yet-- they don't treat them like pairs, apparently.

    They are also going to pull the engine and replace the belts for $5,000 USD. This isn't the quality of what I've read Brian does on a major, but it will get me the belts, fluids, and a replacement ECU so I can actually START DRIVING with a small contribution from the dealer.

    Of course this is more expense than I was expecting for a car I was probably overpaying for to start with, but you've all convinced me that it is unsafe to drive without the belt change. So it will be another 3 weeks or so before I'll have the car presumably in good driving shape.

    Thanks for all of your help, and for the intro to Brian.
     
  21. cal355

    cal355 Formula Junior

    Jun 16, 2004
    383
    San Francisco
    Full Name:
    Cal
    Take the car to Prancing Horse in Burlingame,see Dayal Dindral(650)558-8585;1390 Rollins Rd,94010.One of the best with TR's.
     
  22. Vlad328

    Vlad328 Formula Junior

    Mar 16, 2004
    279
    New Orleans, LA
    Full Name:
    Vladimir Zuzukin
    I hate it when people have the nerve to sell a Ferrari that is overdue its proper service. I don't even agree reducing the price by the cost of the 30K service, which by the way is rarely offered up front by the seller. When you go to sell one of these cars, I think you should invest the money to make the car ready for sale much like a dealer would. You will get your investment back when you sell a proper, serviced, and documented car. But the truth is that some people want to "get out" of the true cost of ownership by selling the car and skimping on the due or overdue service, hoping to just dump that cost on an unsuspecting or poorly informed buyer.
     
  23. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall

    I agree that in the case of a dealer it makes good business sense but in the case of private parties not always. Myself and many of my clients prefer a car without the service done. In that way they get to pick who does it and make sure it gets done to their standard. Do not forget not all majors are equal. I have seen many shortcut services done for that purpose. Also if you are buying a car long distance who do you go back to for a problem. There is no reciprocity between even the franchises unless it is done on a case by case basis. I have read several nightmare scenarios here of a long distance purchase just to have a problem shortly after delivery.

    As far as a reduction in price goes for a car that is behind on services, that is a large part of why you do a PPI. A PPI is not only to save you from a bad car but also to give you ammunition for price negotiation. A mechanic that cannot find you enough reason for a renegotiation of price downward to at least pay his fee is not worth his fee.
     
  24. smsmd

    smsmd Karting

    Nov 12, 2003
    150
    San Jose, California
    Full Name:
    Steven Scates MD
    I hope it all works out quickly for you.

    I looked at the car a couple of weeks ago and it is stunning.

    I didn't listen to the stereo, but I thought I saw Mac amps had been placed. I'll bet it sounds great.

    Hope it's sorted out soon, beautiful car.

    steve
     
  25. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

    Sep 4, 2001
    12,887
    Cumming, Georgia
    Full Name:
    Franklin E. Parker
    Be sure the cam belt tensioner bearings and water pump are replaced too while the engine is out.
     

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