What's with oral surgeons?

Mike, the flush mounts worked great, excellent product, fit and finish is A+ i pulled the bike in the living room to put them on, my GF loved that lol, when i first turned them on they lit up the hole darn room, definitely the brightest flush mounts on the market, i was concerned that they wouldnt be as visible as the stockers but there much better, what i really like about them is you can see them flashing from the side, the stockers you can only see from the front, the greggs dont even compare to yours, pleasure doing bizz with you, thanks again

 

Yes... an enlarged lymph node is not normal. Did any of the doctors palpate (feel) the area? Did any agree that it was enlarged?

Also, if there is a significant "lump," it may merit exploratory surgery.

Well.... not quite the good analogy.... Experience DOES count. And, the dentists you're seeing may not have that experience, whereas a dental school might. Dental schools have the advantage of seeing a wide spectrum of pathologies. OTOH, a private practice sees a much more limited demographic. The military is like dental schools in this way. In my 3 years in the Navy, I saw stuff I had only seen in books previously... and haven't seen again since leaving the Navy.

There is a saying... "If you asked a group of dentists to form a firing squad, they would stand in a circle!"

Mike

 

Why don't you go down to Mexico and give it a try? Maybe you can save a lot of money too.

(Look at a map, I am not in competition with either Canada or Mexico)

 

Gotta love it when someone "breaks the news" to us, as if we're unaware of Americans crossing the border. They think we're trying to protect our turf in a self-serving manner. I think I can speak for the profession when I say we aren't the least bit worried about that. What has been said here about Mexican dentistry is from first hand observation. I agree that it's not the national origin, but rather the individual dentist, that determines quality of care. HOWEVER, the STANDARDS and regulations in those countries ARE different, and generally WELL-BELOW the standards of the U.S. Are there dentists here that don't meet our own standards? Of course! But, there CAN be repercussions for those individuals.

For those who don't want to believe us, I happily bid them adieu and wish them luck. I stand by ready to fix poor work at my full fee.

Mike

 

dont get me wrong, im not saying you walk into any tom, dick or jesus on the other side of the border, but you do a little research, get references, and you can can get quality work done and save yourself alot of money

the friend that told me about this is a sharp lady, she said she checked out the equipment in the dentist office, everything was state of the art, brand new equipment

how about one of you dentist talking about amalgum, and how they stopped using it in europe many years ago once it was suspected of causing health problems, but the dentist in the US kept right on using it because if they admitted it was a problem they would open themselves up to billions in lawsuits

 

How about spelling it correctly first?

You really have no idea what you are talking about do you? I'll tell you what, I won't try to tell you how to do your job if you do the same for me.

 

The equipment is not really the best way to judge a dentist.

OK... just for fun... There isn't a single country in Europe that has banned amalgam. Not one. This is a frequently used "factoid" that is simply inaccurate. There are a few countries in Europe in which there are RECOMMENDATIONS not to use amalgam in certain types of patients. But, there has not been a ban... ever.

The reason it hasn't been banned is that there is ZERO science to show that it is harmful. Zero SCIENCE. Not one recognized scientific entity will support the notion that amalgam causes any medical problems or disease.

That said, I forsee the day when it will be banned for POLITICAL purposes. There are political gains to be made by doing so.

Personally, I haven't placed an amalgam in 12 years, or so. My reasons have nothing to do with any concerns about health or any risks posed by amalgam. I simply believe there are better materials... WHEN USED PROPERLY. If amalgam is banned, many patients will suffer significant problems when dentists use composite as a substitute without the right protocol. Using composite requires METICULOUS technique. Amalgam, on the other hand, is quite forgiving and works well in less than ideal circumstances. Composite takes MUCH longer to do, and it is considerably more expensive.

Any dentist would agree that a "poorly done" amalgam is MUCH preferable to a poorly done composite. Poorly done composites fail catastrophically.

Amalgam has served us very well as an inexpensive and relatively easy restoration to do. To ban it outright will lead to unnecessary suffering and expense, especially for those who are financially challenged.

I always chuckle at the notion that Europe is inherently more advanced than us. But, I am compelled to point out erroneous information that is used to promote an agenda. Those with the agenda KNOW that the average person won't check out the "facts" for themselves. Again... not one single country in the WORLD has banned amalgam outright.

Soooooo... there's no conspiracy. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Mike

 

101% Correct!!

Beachbum; don't let facts stop you from going to Mexico and having all your amalgam replaced for $35...

 

I wonder what beachbum thinks about dental "insurance" not covering composites in posterior teeth. They usually will only pay for amalgam.

Again... I have nothing to gain by supporting the use of amalgam. I haven't used it in 12 years. But, as a scientist, I cannot support the notion that it is a bad or harmful material. It simply isn't.

I have a high-end practice with commensurate fees. I recognize that not everyone can afford to come to my practice. Amalgam serves a purpose and serves it well. I'm glad there are dentists who are still using it.

Mike

 

That's true, one of my workers regularly frequents Mexico...not only for his dental needs, but prescriptions, auto-body work and other things. HOWEVER, let's wake-up and smell the novacaine (or litacaine of whatever they're jacking into our gums nowadays)......

If this were a simple cavity or routine proceedure then sure...roll the dice and run south of the border. BUT this isn't routine, this is by all description a very unique and odd problem. This guy needs a specialist who has seen a LOT of stuff. He needs the best of the best and unless it's a fish taco you ain't gonna find it down south....so let's stop the dental flame war boys.

Even I know that X-rays can not see all that much, someone has to do an MRI, Cat-scan or some kind of more in-depth scanning of the area to figure it out. That or you can just come on over to my workshop and we can go hog-wild with the band-saw, drill press and just get into it ourselves.

I feel sorry for ya, good luck with it. Stay the course, someone will figure it out and get you well again.

 

Composite MUCH harder to place than an amalgam restoration?? C'mon dude when was the last time you worried about 90 degrees, retention, etc with placing a composite. Then again, I'm only a 3rd year dental student and we pretty much do dentistry like a 16yr old drives during his driving test...

Amalgam and fluoride have become the "whipping boys" of the dental profession. There is nothing wrong with amalgams and it offers a relatively inexpensive and long-lasting "fix". As composite materials improve and become more affordable, amalgam will be fazed out by the market.

 

Ummm... and how many posterior composites have you done??? Please don't embarrass yourself. Believe it... posterior composites are a WHOLE lot more difficult than doing amalgam. BTW, your dental degree... when you get it... is nothing more than a license to learn.

Again... you're embarrassing yourself. Amalgam and fluoride are NOT the "whipping boys" of the dental profession. The profession, at large, VERY much supports the continued use of both. I also support their use (even though I personally do not use amalgam). Those who oppose their use are generally not in the profession at all. Those in the profession that oppose their use are, at the most, fringe groups.

Get out of school, get some experience, and very important... go after continuing education as if you can't get enough. The stuff they're teaching in dental school is virtually the same as I was taught 17 years ago. It's enough to keep you from harming people... that's about it. Today, NOTHING I do in practice is the way I was taught in dental school. Everything has changed.

So, please don't believe you "know it all" because you're a 3rd year student. You don't even know what you don't know at this point.

Mike

PS... If you want to learn a TON before you graduate, check out www.dentaltown.com.

 

I am laughing at that guy because I thought I knew everything when I was a student too.

Yes, placing a composit CORRECTLY is much more technical. If you don't get it right, it will haunt you soon after. It actually took me about 2 years in practice before I was really comfortable with a class II. I was able to do the same with an amalgam after about 3 minutes as a student.


You'll see...

 

Sounds about right... (the time it takes to become truly proficient with adhesive dentistry.)

It is his ideas about placing composites (vs. amalgams) that will cause the biggest problems when amalgam is banned. So many dentists think it's simply a matter of changing materials... but, using similar techniques. Ha! As you said... If you don't get it right, it WILL haunt you SOON after. By comparison, a monkey could place amalgam. It is THAT different.

Sounds like we have similar philosophies, Tommy. How long have you been practicing? (I'll have 18 years in June.)

Mike

 

The body is the most complicated machine imaginable, and very few problems it presents itself with are black and white. And yes medicine is a practice, and yes that is where experience is most valuable. This maxillary osteomyelitis, NICO, or immune system disorder should be examined thoroughly, and probably at a University setting. Outside of a oral surgeon, pediatric dentist, and oral pathologist the hospital and it's resourses are not often a part of its diagnosis and treatment plan. Again, this is not my specialty, but I would amagine that a surgeon should expose this area, perform a thorough curretage, debrisment, biopsy, and possibly an antibiotic. Let us know how things progress. Anyway, I'm a new owner of an '03 360 Modena coupe and would like to know of you guys experience with 3M clear protective coating and after market exhaust. thanks,steven

 

Enlarged lymph nodes can happen for a variety of reasons. It's important to determine why it is happening to you. It could be anything from a local dental infection to a virus to cancer. Lots of variables. Usually, it is the simplest or most obvious reason. "When you hear hoofbeats, it's probably a horse and not a zebra. It COULD be a zebra...but, it's most likely a horse."

I've never heard composites referred to as "temporary fillings" in my career. The term "temporary" may be applied in a case where the material is used as a stop-gap measure when a crown is actually indicated. But, composite has never been classified categorically as a "temporary" material.

Obviously, your experience has not been good. And, it's understandable that your perception of the profession would be influenced, albeit unfair and inaccurate. (Wanna talk about attorneys??? LOL!) There are TONS of great dentists out there. The trick is to find one. If you want to PM me, I may be able to help find one in your area. I'm involved in a couple of national organizations of like-minded dentists who constantly strive for excellence. So, I have connections all over the country. Where are you at?

Mike

 

That makes you a SAINT!

Mike

 

Believe it or not I started to mention the amalgam/monkey thing too.

U of Alabama class of 95

 

Any chance you know my Endodontist friend, Andy Graves? He went to school there, practiced here, and then moved back there a couple of years ago.

Mike

 

You bet I know Andy!

We met as undergrads back in 89. We were really good friends. I even got him a job in a lab I worked in. He is absolutely one of the funniest people I have ever known in my life. I really missed the hell out of him after we went our own way after school. I went down to see him when he moved back a couple of years ago. I should get back in touch with him again.

Small world.

 

Andy is a great guy. I do a lot of my own endo, but he was my "go to" guy when needed. I was also friendly with him. If you run into him, tell him Mike Barr said hello.

Mike

 

You bet I will

 

and yes guys, i had all my amalgum replaced years ago, the first thing i noticed was the metalic taste in my mouth went away, then after a period of time i noticed my mental and physical health improved, antidotal evidence i know, but that was my experience

im amazed that you dentist wont even consider the possibilty that amalgum can be detrimental to ones health, my dentist at least admits to the
possibility, ill admit im no PHD, but it doesnt take a genius to figure out putting the poison mercury in an acidic envirement like someones mouth cant be a good thing, you guys remind me of the cigarette manufactures testifying befor congress claiming theres no evidence that smoking is addictive or causes cancer

wasnt there something a few years back about dentist having high rates of certain types of cancer that was attibuted to the handling of amalgum, why do i have the feeling that the defenders of amalgum are pretty darn careful when handling the stuff

and putting fluoride in drinking water is a process that should have been banned years ago, it may have had its time when it was affective but that time is past, since the advent of flouridated toothpaste its no longer needed,
i dont know about you guys, but i dont want anything in my drinking water that doesnt have to be there

by the way, i dont drink anything out of aluminum cans, i can taste the aluminum, im sure next ill be attacked by an aluminum manufacturer on here

 

Beach Bum, there are hundreds and hundreds of research articles reputing your claims about fluoride and the Hg in amalgams. I would be able to purchase a Ferrari for every day of the week with the money I would make if there were no fluoride in the H20 and replacing all those poisonous fillings with composite restorations.