308 QV Suspension/steering/brake rebuild | FerrariChat

308 QV Suspension/steering/brake rebuild

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by jwise, Jan 20, 2006.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. jwise

    jwise Formula Junior

    Apr 2, 2003
    781
    Portland Maine
    #1 jwise, Jan 20, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I'm in the closing stages of my 308 suspension/steering/brake rebuild and thought I would document the process, at least how it’s going for me.

    First off- the symptoms:

    1. most wishbone inner bushings look shot
    2. wandering nose or front right lock up of the brakes while braking at high speeds- not very comfortable- bleed changed nothing
    3. vibration in steering wheel at 65 mph- comes and goes
    4. drop link bushings look rough and cracked
    5. these components are 20 years old- time for a refresh

    First thing- get the car up on four jack stands (someday- a lift- sigh…) and remove the wheels and wheel well liners. Make sure she is nice and steady- you will be putting some pressure and torque on the car as you go. I just shake it quite a bit before I take the wheels off.

    Next- spray everything with PB Blaster you THINK you might need to remove in the near future.

    So, I started by removing the calipers and rotors. I'm rebuilding the calipers (just dust boots and piston seals) and had the rotor turned for about $50 for all four. Rebuild kits from Pelican Parts (front) and NAPA for rear. $15 each.
    Rebuild descriptions can be found in other posts.

    Just remove the short hard brake lines that run from the ends of the flexible lines to the calipers. You will need an 11mm flare wrench for this. These were suprisingly tight- so go slow. The clips that hold these lines to the body are removed and are not used if you are replacing the flexible lines with aftermarket- at least this is true on my car. The new lines mount to the car with treaded fittings.

    Once the short hard lines are gone (mine are s-shaped), the bolts holding the caliper to the hub are easy to get to. Watch for the spacers that are between the hub and caliper as you pull them off- they will fall to the ground. I just loosened the upper mounting bolt, then removed the lower bolt and rotated the caliper enough to get the spacer out. This way I knew where it came from. Then, just put the bolts back in the hubs with the shim/spacer attached. This is documented on other posts.

    With calipers out of the way, I removed the front hubs to replace the wheel bearings, grease seals etc. Once the two small wheel alignment pins are removed, the rotor can be pulled off by tapping the back as you rotate the rotor. This took a few minutes. On the other side I removed the spindle nut that is peened onto the end of the shaft, and removed the hub and rotor as a unit, then took the unit to the work bench to split the rotor from the hub.
    Either way works.

    Next, I removed the sway bars with drop links. Cleaned and/or painted and bushings replaced. The hard bushings came out easily with a 12-ton press I bought for $120 from Harbor Freight.
    http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=1667


    These bushings were bought from Superformance- I think the hard drop link bushings are $15, and the rubber cones were a couple bucks each. These can be ordered simply from their website. http://www.superformance.co.uk/

    Next, I removed the flexible brake lines to later replace with stainless wrapped lines from Goodridge. $80 from Stevson Motors in the UK.
    http://www.stevsonmotors.co.uk/home.htm

    I should have waited to do the lines until after the a-arms were out of the way- live and learn. No problems, I just sprayed them with PB Blaster for a couple of days.

    Attached are some photos of the progress- including caliper rebuild kits (ATE for front, NAPA for rear) before and after rebuild, all bolts sprayed, bad inner bushings, rebuilt drop-links, and how it looked after 20 years of driving:

    More to follow later-
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  2. spiderseeker

    spiderseeker Formula 3

    Jul 22, 2005
    1,718
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Steve
    Great job, keep the pics coming ! (I may be doing the same rebuild this Spring)
    Steve
     
  3. jwise

    jwise Formula Junior

    Apr 2, 2003
    781
    Portland Maine
    #3 jwise, Jan 20, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Next up- the removal of the a-arms. Nothing really difficult about this except you need to pay attention to the alignment shims used to adjust the lower arms distance from the frame. Everything came apart fine with a couple days of PB Blaster. Seriously- use the Blaster- it is fantastic.

    Access to the inner bolts is not bad once the rotors and calipers are gone.
    I removed the front left suspension arms piece by piece and that worked fine. But the front right was pulled as a unit still connected to the spindle, ball joints, and shock- see photo. This is the easier method because you can continue the dismantle on the workbench. Either way works fine.

    I removed the rear a-arms individually because I was going to leave the hub and shock on the car. This went fine- except the 22mm bolt that holds the lower rear inner bushings to the frame are quite tight and you can't get a socket on all of them so it takes a while with a box-end wrench.

    Once all the a-arms were on the bench (in the nice warm basement as opposed to the uninsulated, unheated garage in Maine), I just pulled everything apart and bagged/labeled everything. I left the ball joints on the front spindles. They seemed fine, and all I was doing to the spindles was cleaning and painting with VHT Epoxy heat paint- satin black. I bought the spray VHT from Summit Racing online for about $8 a can. Two cans did the job.

    More photos:
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  4. jwise

    jwise Formula Junior

    Apr 2, 2003
    781
    Portland Maine
    #4 jwise, Jan 20, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    So- next up was to replace the a-arm bushings with Energy Suspension Bushings 13.3101.G (16). I went with the advice of other posts about just replacing the inner bushings and leaving the original outer shell welded to the a-arm.

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49955&highlight=308+suspension+bushing+energy

    After cleaning all the years of gunk and undercoating off of the arms (I used mainly thinner and brake cleaner) it was time to remove the old bushings.
    First, just sawzall the outside metal end of the bushing while holding the arm in a vice.

    ***On a side note, the front and rear bushings are made up of different construction material. The metal ends on the rear bushings are copper, and the fronts are steel. Also- the rubber bushing itself is black on the front and pink/red on the rears. These are original on my car and all were stamped "Made in Italy" in english.***

    After removing the metal end of the bushing, you can either press it out, or burn it out. I found that a few minutes with a propane torch really melted/scorched these rubber parts into submission and you could push them out with your hands and an appropriate sized socked. Unfortunately, you will need to clean melted gooey rubber off of the socket when you are done. Laquer thinner worked fine. Those bushings are quite hot when you push them out, so don't just grab them or let them fall on any carpet, sawdust, etc.

    Next, I cleaned out any residue inside the remaining bushing welded to tha a-arm. Very little to no residue was found, so this was quick. I just hit it quickly with a wire brush on the end of a drill.

    Next, I used the 12 ton to remove the inner bushings from the new ES bushings. No problems- just takes a little while to figure out the pieces need to press on. I just used my 36mm socket I had just bought to remove the spindle nut on an Acura Legend.

    More to come later after working some more this weekend:
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  5. Gianluca

    Gianluca Formula Junior

    May 6, 2003
    349
    Centreville, Virgini
    Full Name:
    Gianluca Chegai
    My wife hates you...

    Thank you for the great post. Need to do that.
     
  6. jford10014

    jford10014 F1 Rookie

    Feb 28, 2004
    2,735
    New York, NY
    Full Name:
    Jason
    JWise - Keep up the good work (both the job and the documentation) as this is on my project list for next year :)

    (I have my hands full this year as u know.....)

    It must be freezing in your garage. I'm working several hundred miles south of you, and I'm dressing in thermals out there.

    Jas
     
  7. SEEYAAA

    SEEYAAA Rookie

    Nov 19, 2005
    14
    Nashua NH
    Full Name:
    Rik
    your timing on this couldnt be better!! keep up the great work!!
     
  8. ham308

    ham308 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    358
    NE Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Richard Ham
    Same thanks from me, Jwise

    Really good to have the step by step procedure with pictures.
     
  9. ham308

    ham308 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    358
    NE Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Richard Ham
    Jwise,
    looking at your inner bushings (if you'll excuse me getting familiar) do you think it is necessary to replace the rubbers?

    The bits that were exposed to the air look rough but does this have any effect on their function at all? Do you think they are slacker after 20 years and might cause knocking noises or are they just 20 years harder which means they might even tighten up the handling?

    I'd be interested in what people think, bearing in mind that you could save some effort, money and some skin off your knuckles here.
     
  10. ham308

    ham308 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    358
    NE Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Richard Ham
    Yet another question..., what are you planning with the dampers?

    thanks in advance
    Richard
     
  11. jwise

    jwise Formula Junior

    Apr 2, 2003
    781
    Portland Maine
    The rubber inside the bushings was pretty soft. Obviously the ones I burned out would be soft, but the first few I removed I did with the press. I would think any 20 year old rubber would be degraded and will have shrunken. you could see where the rubber had pulled away from the metal flanges of the original bushings. For example- I also replaced the steering rack bushing that mount to the frame. The old ones looked fine, but were quite soft compared to the new ones. That should make a big difference in the steering- as will the new rebuilt rack.

    The actual process of replacing those 16 bushings is really no big deal if you are taking off the a-arms to refreshen anyway. We'll see if there is a big change in the ride characteristics.
     
  12. jwise

    jwise Formula Junior

    Apr 2, 2003
    781
    Portland Maine
    No new shocks this year. I will replace with new Konis next winter.
    I didn't want to spend an extra $1000 on this project, and I'm interested to see what this change alone does to the handling of the car.
     
  13. jwise

    jwise Formula Junior

    Apr 2, 2003
    781
    Portland Maine
    #13 jwise, Jan 23, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Next up- install the new bushings and paint the a-arms:

    First- I really cleaned the a-arms with brake cleaner, and some old fashioned hand work. Took a little while- the hardest part was removing some of the factory undercoating that was on the a-arms.

    After removing the guts with heat- I just lubed up (with ES supplied grease) the new guts and pressed them in with a c-clamp while the a-arms were still warm. No problems. I just used one of the new ES outer bushing sleve to press against- see photo.

    So- after a install of new bushings, and a good cleaning, it was time to paint. I just sanded down the arms to give them a little tooth, used a little thinner to clean up the residue, and painted them. I taped off the new bushings, and the outer bushings before paint. I set up a little spray booth/box to make it a little easier. I used VHT epoxy paint (satin black) from Summit racing.

    http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?Ntt=VHT+paint&searchinresults=false&Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&N=115&target=egnsearch.asp&x=30&y=9

    Item # VHT SP652

    Seem to work well, and is pretty tough after drying for a couple of weeks.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  14. jwise

    jwise Formula Junior

    Apr 2, 2003
    781
    Portland Maine
    #14 jwise, Jan 23, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Next up- dismantle the rear outer bushings and relubricate. I've recently posted this info:

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89801

    Lots of great infor there.

    Keep track of the little alignment pins in the outer rear bushings- they can fall out and be lost forever- I would know. I had to make one out of a coat hanger- seemed to work fine and was dimensionally almost perfect.

    I attached the same photos used in the other thread- the last two are of the chrome bushing before and after.

    So- it's about time to start on the steering rack removal and install of rebuilt unit, then- install rebuilt a-arms. More later.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  15. jwise

    jwise Formula Junior

    Apr 2, 2003
    781
    Portland Maine
    #15 jwise, Jan 24, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Steering rack replacement:

    I originally was going to replace the tie-rod ends and the mount bushings (bought from Superformance for a couple bucks each) for the rack. But, after removing the rack- I realized that both inner tie-rod ends were loose (one with noticable axial play) and the inner bushing of the rack was also worn. Everything felt tight when it was installed on the car, but once it came out- the problems were obvious. The photo highlights where the looseness was in the rack. To really check the condition of your rack, you need to split the tie-rod ends from the steering knuckles.

    Removing the rack is really not too difficult (as long as the a-arms are out of the way!) so that went quickly. There are thin metal shims behind every rubber bushing where the rack contacts the frame of the car. Make sure you pay attention during removal. I just removed the rack and frame mounts that wrap around the rack as a unit and split them on the bench. Removal is easier from the drivers side.

    I debated on rebuilding the rack myself- but was not confortable with the job.
    So, I bought a rebuilt unit from AW Inports.
    http://www.hemmings.com/images/pdfs/I_64279.pdf

    It was $400, plus shipping and was the exact same Cam Gear model that came off the car. I talked with Frank. Very simple, and should make quite a difference.

    Before install- I cleaned up the front wheel wells, taped off the body, and gave a light spray with the epoxy VHT paint to freshen up the area. Looks o.k. I'm not really looking for concourse quality.

    Install was just the reverse. No real big hurdles. Torqued to specifications.

    I left the coupling (boy, that bolt sure is small for the huge job it does- if it comes loose, you can pull the steering shaft out of the rack while you are driving) from the steering shaft to the rack unattached until I can get the alignment close. That will wait untill the suspension is back in.

    Stainless wrapped flexible brake lines were installed at the same time. No problems. Line were bought from Steveson Motors in the UK. Great price and easy to deal with.

    http://www.stevsonmotors.co.uk/home.htm

    Cost was about $80 delivered for all four Goodridge lines.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  16. jwise

    jwise Formula Junior

    Apr 2, 2003
    781
    Portland Maine
    #16 jwise, Jan 25, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Next up: a-arm install:

    No real tricks to this. The "ears" (?) on the frame needed a little pry bar work to fit in the new bushings.

    I installed the rear arms first (putting the alignment shims back the same as they were before). I just looked at my earlier photos to make sure everything was installed the same. All torqued to specification from the "shop manual". I guess the most difficult aspect was getting the lower outer bushings to stay together as they were fitted onto the hub. Again- pay attention to those little alignment pins.

    Next- installed the rear calipers and rotors. I just used a little grease to stick the caliper alignment shims to the hub, and that worked o.k. Others have used a little super glue- that would be better. Short hard brake lines were atteched to new flexible lines and then to the calipers. Be easy on these during install- I tend to gorrila things, so I was very careful not to overtighten these. After filling and bleeding the brake system, I will leave the car on the stands and have someone apply pedal pressure while the car is running and I will check all connections. I would rather need to re-tighten later than break something now.

    Next- installed the front a-arms. Again- no real problems and fairly straight-forward. Again- all alignment shims (both at the lower arms and each ball joint) were put back the same as before.

    A note about installing the a-arm aligment shims: I just tightened the nut that holds the lower bushing/a-arm to the frame while looking through the slots in the frame until it was close to the thickness of the shims. I then used my knee to push in on the a-arm to pinch the shims, as I tightened the nut further so the shims were held. Then, torqued to spec- when possible.
    I couldn't get a socket on everyone of these.

    After torquing each fastener- I would put a little yellow paint on the nut so I knew which had already been done. I tend to get distracted out the garage- so it's just a good check for me.

    These photos were taken before most fasteners were torqued.

    More later: front hub/rotor and sway bar install
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  17. jwise

    jwise Formula Junior

    Apr 2, 2003
    781
    Portland Maine
    #17 jwise, Jan 26, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Well- the front rotors are on- used some copper anit-sieze where it contacts the hub. All a-arms are installed, sway bars with new bushings installed, drop links installed with new bushings, etc.

    All that is left this coming weekend is to install the front calipers, fill the brake system, bleed (Motive power bleeder), check for leaks, VERY short test drive to verify brake function (if the roads are o.k.) and then truck it to a shop for alignment/ wheel balance/ general lookover of the new components to make sure I didn't install something incorrectly. The shop is about 40 minutes away on the highway- so I decided to have them come get it and save me the hassle of getting the alignment close enough for highway speeds. Seems the right decision.

    The first and last are some before pix.

    I just realized that I think I need to pop the front rotors off to install the dust shields. Oh well.

    More later- including driving impressions.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  18. jwise

    jwise Formula Junior

    Apr 2, 2003
    781
    Portland Maine
    The job is done!

    This past weekend I finished the alignment,front brake caliper/rotor install, bled the brake system (found one small leak at one of the line connections- a simple loosen and re-tighten soleved it), quick clean and paint of the rear wheel well liners, install liners-wheels-front panel etc and then put her back on the ground.

    I think I got the front toe-in alignment close with the use of a laser level I got for Christmas. Basically, I clamped a bubble level to the rear caliper (which should be straight) and then laid the laser level on the bubble level so I knew it was parallel to the rear rotor. I shot the laser at the front rotors and could easily tell if the front rotors were not parallal to the rears. I eyeballed a little toe-in and torqued it together. Make sure you use some blue lock-tite on the bolt that connects the steering rack to the steering column. You do not want that one to come loose while driving!

    I also took measurements from the floor to the highest part of the wheel arches so I can see if these bushings settle in over time. Three corners were 27", and the fourth was 27 1/2".

    So- a quick test drive was in order:

    The steering is much better- quick response, tight feeling etc.
    The steering wheel is straight when the car is going straight- so that's cool.

    I couldn't really push anything because I need to wait until after the alignment to bed in the new brake pads. But- no creeks or moans in the suspension, and it felt pretty good.

    Brake pedal has too much travel- but seems to stop fine with the new flexible lines once it starts to grab. After the pads are bedded in, I will bleed again and check the rear pad adjustment. I assume this is not normal for these stainless wrapped flexible lines?

    So, I only went around the block a couple of times as it started to rain/snow.

    More later after the alignment/tire balance. I'll post a few more photos later also.

    Thanks

    jwise
     
  19. jwise

    jwise Formula Junior

    Apr 2, 2003
    781
    Portland Maine
    #19 jwise, Feb 6, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here are the final photos of finished front and rear.

    Cost:
    rebuilt steering rack- $400
    16 ES suspension bushings - about $350
    caliper rebuild kits- about $15/each
    turn rotors- $15/each
    stainless wrapped flexible brake lines (Goodridge)- $85
    steering rack frame mount bushings- $25
    drop link bushings (flexible and solid)- $40
    new brake pads (Axxis deluxe)- $80
    tie rod ends- $25 each
    spindle nuts- $19
    misc. supplies (paint/grease/cleaner/brake fluid)- $50
    alignment and balance- $250

    Hope this post helps some of you thinking about doing this job- and thanks for all the previous comments.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  20. NYCFERRARIS

    NYCFERRARIS Formula 3

    Mar 2, 2004
    1,009
    My mechanic is going to hate you...he has been pusihing me to have him do this exact work this winter the only diff. is that he said he would powdercoat all suspension peices...I see that you spray painted them and I just saw a "home" powder coating kit that I might use...but I will definately do this myself with the confidence of your thread here..thank you..esp. all the tool and parts source and price references as well! thanks for sharing and I too know the pain and pleasure ( hands so frozen and numb the nicks and bangs don't hurt) of working in a unheated Northeast garage....( I also use carpets over the cold cement floor!)
     
  21. Owens84QV

    Owens84QV F1 Rookie

    Oct 2, 2001
    4,486
    Somewhere in NC
    Full Name:
    Greg
    Congrats!! This past weekend, I finished my 30K major! (I'll be posting pics in my other thread) The only items left to do is install the alternator, AC compressor, and coolant pipe to the thermostat, and put new coolant in. My winter suspension project starts next! I will definitely be using your thread for much needed guideance.
     
  22. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Consultant Owner

    May 5, 2001
    7,022
    Groton, MA
    Full Name:
    Verell Boaen
    Powder coating looks good, is better than paint for chip resistance, but isn't as resistant to moisture & O2. JWise has a brother whose company makes suspension parts for a major auto mfg. They went away from powder coating to paint as the powdercoating didn't offer adequate corrosion protection. But then, these were trucks that run in salt season, etc. I suspect that powder coating would last fine on your 3x8.

    We powdercoated Birdman's suspension when we rebuilt it (search archives). Gave the a-arms double heavy coats. Looked great, & certainly was plenty tough.

    BTW, I use Harbor Freight's powdercoating gun, & an ex kitchen oven. Have had great success with it. It's a lot easier to use than paint, & lots more easier to clean up: just vacuum! Just be sure to thoroughly degrease the parts before you sand blast them, & if you have to clean after sand blasting, use lacquer thinner & bake them for a couple of hours at 400F to get all trace of the solvent out.

    For powder:
    www.eastwoodco.com
    www.pendrypowdercoatings.com

    The HF gun's gravity feed design works well, IMHO is better than the Eastwood gun. BTW, Caswell plating & a couple of other places sell the same gun as HF, for a higher price.

    ULTIMATE PROTECTION:
    Use satin black POR15 on the suspension. At least 3 coats. Is easy to use, brushes on, flows out great, but has a tendancy to drip if you get it on too thick. Looks great, but more important, is highly chip resistant & blocks both moisture & O2.
     
  23. asianbond

    asianbond Formula 3

    Nov 8, 2003
    1,276
    Full Name:
    Chris
    Great job! I'm about to embark on a similiar project. Can you kindly list all the suppliers for the parts you got.

    Thanks.
     
  24. ham308

    ham308 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    358
    NE Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Richard Ham
    #24 ham308, Feb 8, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hi Jwise, thanks for the great thread. How is it now that the geometry has been checked? Have all the knocking noises gone or are the old dampers noisy?


    Just looking at this photo you posted. Did I miss part of the story or is the right hand support here bust? Looks kind of dangerous.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  25. senna21

    senna21 F1 Rookie

    Jul 2, 2004
    3,334
    Los Angeles, CA
    Full Name:
    Charles W
    Great job, and fantastic write up! :)

    The stainless lines should give you a very solid feel. I'd guess you might have a "bit" of air still in the lines.

    Also I have Axxis pads on my car (not a Ferrari) and they do need some heat in them before they really grip. Remember that as you come to the first stop sign on a cold morning. ;) But, once they do you'll be very happy with them. They do a great job of hauling the car down with no fade. They also don't give off that much dust. They actually produce less than the OEM Toyota ones I used to have. That's saying a lot.
     

Share This Page