who's in, who's waiting? new belt cam design is done and manufacturing begins now! | Page 2 | FerrariChat

who's in, who's waiting? new belt cam design is done and manufacturing begins now!

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by smg2, Feb 14, 2006.

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  1. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    #26 smg2, Feb 15, 2006
    paul that's an easy one, the center of the adjustable pulley is std. bar stock not the toothed stock. so for your application all i need is the dia of the hole and the radial distance the pin centers from the center of the pulley. from that i can machine centers for the 3.2. if you have a spare pulley you can send it my way and i can take those measurments directly.

    scott
     
  2. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy
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    #27 GrigioGuy, Feb 15, 2006
    Maybe the tech mod can merge the non-order questions back into the main thread.

    If the cam pullies are different on the 3.2, what about the other end? Any changes there?
     
  3. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

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    #28 parkerfe, Feb 15, 2006
    That's him. As I recall he used the newer round tooth belts and pulleys with his system.
     
  4. matteo

    matteo F1 World Champ

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    #29 matteo, Feb 15, 2006
    Yes. That was the jist of his design. He was selling them for $1300 or $1400 at the time.
     
  5. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    #30 smg2, Feb 15, 2006
    if paul is using 328 cams and pullies on a 308 then i'd say the pulley teeth are the same thus making the 308/328 1.5:1 ratio. now as to the physical holes for the berrings on the drive pulley i don't know. however becouse they share they same ratio the only difference would be the center machining and for that i can re-do the dwg's for the 3.2. so i can run sets for the 308 & 328 motors.

    i'll get the pysical data from the 3.2 for the dwgs. considering lead time on the stock we can still rotate the 3.2 into the same schedule without delay for those interested.
     
  6. Matt Morgan, "Kermit"

    Matt Morgan, "Kermit" Formula Junior

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    #31 Matt Morgan, "Kermit", Feb 15, 2006
    IIRC, the center hole differance between the two cams is not a great amount. Perhaps a sleeve would take up the differance so that the same pulley would fit, saving production costs.
    If the belt covers are just a bit too close, a washer or two might shim them out enought to fit. You may want to watch the air conditioner clearance though.
     
  7. smg2

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    #32 smg2, Feb 15, 2006
    okay heres what i'll do, i want to get in the order for stock on tuesday Feb 21, 2006. monday is a holiday.

    for those who want in on the first run PM with your info. i like verrells' idea about the deposit just so i'm not stuck 'holding the bag' so to speak on a number of these. Deposit of $250 remainder to be paid upon completion.

    the cost for a set right now is $1200. if i can get at least 5 sets then we can get that down to $1000.


    p.s. i know 5 sets don't sound like alot but due to the design that is 50 parts to be machined, laser etched and anodized. that qualifies us for a disount in machine time and material cost.
     
  8. smg2

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    #33 smg2, Feb 15, 2006
    i had thought of a sleeve but that would require another part and proccess, for the smaller hole it's just a different program when running the 328 centers vs the 308. but uses same jig.
     
  9. jeffdavison

    jeffdavison F1 Rookie
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    #34 jeffdavison, Feb 15, 2006
    Do you have a PayPal account set up?

    JD

     
  10. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    #35 smg2, Feb 15, 2006
    yes i have a paypal account from using ebay.

    also please specify as to what motor you have. 308 vs 328 so i know how many of each need to be done.

    thanks.

    PM me and i can setup all the needed info. i don't want all your private info public ;)
     
  11. jeffdavison

    jeffdavison F1 Rookie
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    #36 jeffdavison, Feb 16, 2006
    WOW!

    the silence is deafening!

    So many chefs, looks like no one is coming to dinner

    JD
     
  12. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie

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    #37 Martin308GTB, Feb 16, 2006
    Yes, it's a pity. But also not very surprising. If looking into the other thread; how many people chimed in there, one would see that demand is limited to a few hardcore techies.
    Now subtract those who are excited about that design, but want to keep their car as original as possible. What remains ?
    Sorry, but this is my opinion. Maybe not popular, but I earn my living with mechanical design I have to offer to customers regularly and have my 'special' experiences.

    Best Regards from Germany

    Martin
     
  13. Sloan83qv

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    #38 Sloan83qv, Feb 16, 2006
    Follow up on the 328 pulley.
    The 328 cam pulley is identical to the 308 4 valve with the only exception being the centering hole. The lower cam drive pulleys are the same ones used in the 308QV and the Belts are the same for both models.

    Why I am interersted in this system it is not within my budget at this time and my input was made only to assist in the design as most don't realize that there is a difference in the pulleys between the two models.

    I think the effort is to be commended, based on what I have read this design is far superior to what Ed Gault did several years ago (not trashing Ed's design). I look forward to seeing the end result....I do believe that there is a need for a better bolt on upgraded system.
    I personally could care less about originality + it is not a visable thing that anyone would notice.....How many Boxers have MSD systems stuffed inside the marelli ignition case??????
    Paul
     
  14. Wayne 962

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    #39 Wayne 962, Feb 16, 2006
    Where's the link to the original thread?

    -Wayne
     
  15. Martin308GTB

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    #40 Martin308GTB, Feb 16, 2006
  16. Martin308GTB

    Martin308GTB F1 Rookie

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    #41 Martin308GTB, Feb 16, 2006
    Hello,

    and what I miss, especially because you're all in the US: What about the question of product liability ?
    I know these lawyers..........

    Best Regards from Germany

    Martin
     
  17. GrigioGuy

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    #42 GrigioGuy, Feb 16, 2006
    I'm in for a 3.2 version, see your PMs please
     
  18. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

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    #43 Dr Tommy Cosgrove, Feb 16, 2006
    Are things that bad over there too?
     
  19. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

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    #44 Dr Tommy Cosgrove, Feb 16, 2006
    I think that was for a 2V too. Ed had a 2V not a 4V.
     
  20. 412monzaindy

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    #45 412monzaindy, Feb 16, 2006
    Here are a couple of suggestions,

    Manufacture a few for stock that are blank, then a have a delivery date worked out with the machine shop to machine the hole for that particular application.

    eg: If it is a 4V center blank ask for an additional $$ ( over the finished 2V) for these, let say 5% to offset the machine shops set up cost for a short run for the center hole
    have the 2V ready to go as minimal stock.

    Manufacture a few sets in each configuration and carry minimal stock with a quick turn-around for orders.

    My 2 cents
     
  21. Harta320

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    #46 Harta320, Feb 16, 2006
    I have been following this thread around for the past 2 weeks. I love the new design and the adjustability. Normaly I would be all over this but my budget is blown on an EFI upgrade this summer. Another thing to think about is the fact that many people (myself included) may have had the belts changed recently. It is tough to buy a grand worth of parts to use 3 to 5 years later. I really hope that in 4 years the vender you are working with will still be offering this set up. I will certainly buy a set even at a higher price. Thanks for all your work by the way!

    Bill
     
  22. GrigioGuy

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    #47 GrigioGuy, Feb 16, 2006

    And that right there is the reason why I'm buying now, even though it will throw off my EFI upgrade for 6 months or more. It's really not in the budget, but I'd kick myself if I didn't get them now and they end up being unavailable in the future.
     
  23. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    #48 smg2, Feb 16, 2006
    thanks for the insight and help, i saw that as an option. however the problem is set-up time for re-alignment, the center 'disk' is not the material with the pulley teeth in it. to machine a different hole for the cam bolt it's easier just to run two different programs and have the whole part done. if i can get the shop to really cut thier rates on a number of these then i'll see about holding on to a few parts for a few extra sets. then when someone wants one it's i just have the rest of the shared parts machined.
    besides i really do not want to charge more to the customer with the 3.2 over 3.0 just becouse they run a different hole.
     
  24. chris marsh

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    #49 chris marsh, Feb 16, 2006
    Let me know if you need any help with manufacturing:

    www.4Mindustries.com


    PS
    I just replaced my belts but I'll buy a set when needed.
     
  25. smg2

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    #50 smg2, Feb 16, 2006
    i have no idea at the moment as to what price they will set. for reference they currently sell the steel pullies at $250 per pulley, thats a 1k for just the 4 stock pullies. i hope that's not bench mark for my new design as that would put this one well into the 2k range and to me that's a bit high for these cars. my whole goal was to keep the price at or below $1500 and for now i have succeded.
     
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