Yeah, thats pretty much how I felt about it. I'll just hold my breath & hope my checkbook can handle another visit. Miltonian: send me a PM with your address & I'll send you a souvenier
Back in 98 I had the same problem. The dealer replaced everything. I hate it when they say "well that was bad anyway", well no it wasen't. Thank heaven I had a warranty at the time. Good luck, I feel your pain.
The E5 code pointed to a bad Heater Valve Control, which has been replaced. Today they put in another hvac computer & it also came up with the E5 code, they used the tester & found that the pump next to the valve has amperage way too high so replaced that too. Now they are thinking the whole wiring harness may need to be replaced. It seems their computer still wont even talk the ac system & the grounds mounted to the AC box may be causing variations.
Something doesn't sound right? I don't like the sound of "the harness is bad". Find the problem then fix THE problem. If that is the case it could be as simple as a coroded/busted wire that needs to be fixxed. But all this replacing stuff too see if the new part fixes the problem is BAD mechanics. This is a problem that needs to be tackled OLD SCHOOL. None of this computer crap. A volt meter, and lots of patience. A little story, not climate control but similar. I had the fuse for my front right headlight keep blowing. Yeah it was getting too many amps, hence the continously blowing fuse. I checked everything connections were all good. To cut to the chase, it turned out to be a busted spot weld on the back of the headlight housing causing it to hang up, and over drive the motor. So to me it sounds like a bad/dirty wire or something causing the control valve to hang up. Have you checked the relays and fuse on the side of the air box.
I bet that Miltonian gets the "bad" HCV to work. The Heater system can only diagnose a few things such as no signal or too much/little voltage/current...they replaced the HCV and still got the same Error code so you'd think that it would be extra resistance in the area that the HCV opens/closes such as corrosion in the heater core or some such. I'd like to test his HCV connected to his electrical system, but not mounted to the heater box. Bet it works that way with no error. Be interesting to know, anyway.
Mike, I have two questions for you: 1) Does your car have any accessories (CD changer, phone, fire extinguisher, stereo amp, etc.) mounted in the front trunk, in a location that MAY involve having a screw driven into the lining of the trunk? I would assume at this point that the trunk lining has been removed for inspection of the A/C system, but I'm wondering if maybe, possibly, someone drove a screw into the wiring harness for the A/C. 2) Has anyone checked to see if the air recirculation flap on the heater air intake box is cycling correctly? This is a known trouble area on 348's. If the flap is stuck in either the open or closed position, and the servo motor is attempting to move the flap with no success, it might cause an error code to pop up. It would be easy to check for this, it's right in plain sight. The problem could be a broken shaft connector piece (Hill makes a replacement), or the flap could be stuck against the rubber seal, or there could possibly be a screw driven through the side of the box that keeps the flap from moving from open to closed. It pains me to see how far this has gone. Ernie has the right idea (as usual). A good description of the problem is 90% of the solution.
Miltonian, are you going to connect Mike's HCV to your 348 in lieu of your own HCV to see if you get the same error code?
ND, I have advised Mike to hang onto his old control valve for the time being, in the hope (crossed fingers!!) that another problem will be identified and his old valve can be reinstalled and his money refunded. At this point, I don't see how the dealer can condemn his old valve for absolute CERTAIN, if the original complaint (error code E5) has not been corrected. He brought it in to have the error code corrected, not to have the valve replaced. If the valve is proven to be defective, fine and dandy. I'd like to have it to determine what went wrong with it. If there's nothing wrong with it, why should he pay for an incorrect diagnosis, whether it was done in good faith or not?
Listers: I also have a little story. We need to remember that there aren't alot of these cars out there so the mechanics may have limited experience with them. My 86 TR started to fill the driver distributor cap with oil. There is a seal on the camshaft and a gasket on the end cover. After replacing both, it still has oil. It turns out the camshaft is filled with oil and the rotor mount is rubber isolated and it cracks and lets oil flow into the dist. cap. The dealer explained the only way to repair it was pull the motor, cam and press in a new endplug. I called another dealer and they also explained the motor had to come out. Finally talked the most senior mechanic at another place. Twenty minutes, a pickel fork and the repair was done. I felt like kissing the guy. FWIW Jeff Pintler 89 348tb, 86 TR
Mike - Hope you see this message -- I have sent PM and email. The cable that everyone in North America said was not available? It would take months to arrive from Italy? Blah blah blah?? Well, it's in my hands and looks pretty cool. p/n 138335, HVAC control harness. We missed the Thursday pm FedEx drop, but I can drop tomorrow for Saturday delivery if critical. Drop me a PM/email or telco
Well I have been dealing with this since December. 1) Dec - e5 code - replaced heater control valve 2) Dec-Jan Still have code - replaced pump for heater core 3) Feb Still have code - dealer says it must be cable assy problem. Dealer said they would order part but had none available. I waited over a month & decided I would look for it myself. My first call was to Daniel at Ricambi & within an hour he had located & set up shipping. Of course dealer now says they could find one. Should be interesting next week when they try to install. I'll keep you posted Thanks again to Daniel MIke
Well, Now the electrical wire harness is installed. I still have the error. Even the dealer now admits they have about run out of things to replace???
I have been watching this thread with great interest in the out come because I have a very simular problem and now I may have a clue as to what the problem may be. I have a 348 in the shop performing a major service on it. I always try to test drive the cars before starting a service to see if there are any other noticable problems that may have been missed by the owner. I do not recall any error codes in the A/C - Heater control. During my pre-service inspection I found that the heater valve itself was leaking and recommended that it be replaced. I replaced it with a new unit from the dealer. Two things occured after replacement. Now I have an E5 code and the valve is either all the way open (has to be on HI) or all the way closed (anything below high). No cycling of the valve motor. Now remember that all I have done is change the heater valve assembly. I had a little more time to spend on it today so I did some more checking. With the new valve still connected and the ECU is turned off. I turned the key on and waited. After about 25 seconds, the E5 error code pops up. So now I hook up the old valve assembly. I wait, and wait, and wait. No code. Hmmm. Reconnect the new valve assembly. 25 seconds and there it is, E5. I will investigate this some more tomorrow but here are my initial thoughts. I believe that there is a problem with what ever signal is being sent to the ECU from the new valve assembly and it doesn't like it. SO, if your valve assembly was stuck and was throwing an E5 code, then that was probably a true error. But when they put on the new valve, and this valve could be within a "lot" of valves that could have a problem. I would suggest that they take a valve assembly from a known good car and hook it up to your car to see if this fixes the problem.
Holy smokes! FerrariOldMan, that's some quality diagnostics! I'll just admit right now that I wouldn't have thought of *two* different back to back errors/problems throwing the same code (not that it means anything that I would have missed it). Nice job. It would be cool if you are right.
I knew it! Tell them you want your money back for the harness. Why do you need to pay for something that didn't need replacing in the first place? You don't! That was the first thing I said, was that I didn't like the talk about replacing the wiring harness. I really hope you don't let them charge you for the harness. They need to find the problem first and then replace THE problem part. All this replacing parts, at the expences of the owner, until they find the problem is VERY BAD mechanics and show a lack of ability to diagnose a problem. Anyone with a stock pile of parts can throw them at the problem until it is fixed. If the guys are an "authorised" Ferrari dealer they should know how to properly diagnose an electrical issue. It looks like it's amateur hour. Because in my opinion all they are doing is throw mud at a wall to see what sicks. If it doesn't sick then throw more mud. Piss poor mechanics. Hey if I had a stock pile of parts in the back I could do the same thing until I rebuilt the car. Take the loom out and get your money back.
Well, I have made some basic resistance measurements of the new unit and old unit with the heater valve open and then closed at the 5 pin connector. Big difference at some of the pins. I don't know exactly which pin does what without tearing the units apart and I don't really want to do that being that both units work fine now (except that the new one does throw the E5 code) and I plan on returning that one to the dealer. I have found that the valve and the motor can be bought seperately on line. Details on this along with pics will follow later. Monday I will install the old unit which now has a new valve on it and I believe that will take care of my problem. I would be curious to know the measurements of one of these new motors that can be bought seperately and if it isn't the same and the old original unit can it be made so. It is cheap enough that I may just order one to find out. Below should be a pic of my old unit. Image Unavailable, Please Login
This is quite funny. I just also completed an engine out service on a 348 last week. Fired up the car to bleed the cooling system..heater on..10 minutes into running the car in the shop..E8 appears on the climate contol screen..d'oh!! Anybody go the code definiton for this one?? My 348 books are still packed away somplace
Oh shame, shame, shame, I know your name. Landsakes Tom, an old timer like you surely knows how to use the search button. Tisk, tisk, tisk. But since your being a lazybutt it's for the electric water pump. No Doubt's webpage has all of them listed. http://webpages.charter.net/aircover/348/1994Ferrari348Spider.html#AirConditioning
So the two components that combine to make 1 "heater control valve" can be bought individually, on-line?! That's beautiful. Wait. Let me guess. They cost only a few pennies each when purchased that way?
I am happy to say that my valve is fixed. I installed a new valve onto the old motor. Works perfect with no code. The valve is for a 1992 Volkswagen Fox or VW watercooled van. Slight modification is needed but if you look at the old one you will see where Ferrari had to modify theirs the same way. Sorry, I left the part number at work. I'm convinced that the pot is set wrong in the new units from Ferrari. Below is a pic of the new and old valve. I have a few more pics so if you need any more info that I can help with please let me know. Mike, any updates on yours ?? I know Chris and others at FOA if you want me to give him a call. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Wow! Our $1,000 Ferrari heater control valve is $33 at RockAuto.com: http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/catalog.php?carcode=1281529&parttype=6860&partGroup=24&EPImodelID=17524&EPIengineID=2410
