Age of 599GTB buyers

Over looks?

The more I see this car, the more I think they had it right with the Maranello. Coming off of the TR, the 550 was a huge leap forward.

Sadly, this car isn't. The rate at which these cars are growing, we might as well be driving Bentleys. Of course, there is a sporting chance that the 599 will be a riot to drive (ligther than a 575, more power, etc.) - but if the cost is looks vs driving capability, well, I'll take the aesthetics and use more purposeful cars.

Drivability is a relative thing. There are people, on this site included, who have daily driven F40s. Jim Spiro putts around in TR/61. I guess you can't have your cake and eat it too. If we're voting with dollars, I'm inclined not to buy one. And it's not an image thing (I think most people know how I rarely ever wash mine, put a bike rack on, etc.).

I heard an interesting comment. Apparently the original designer of the 599 had penned something quite striking. W/o saying more, the design committee that eventually had final say had not come up with this concept through a ratoinal design process for aerodynamic advantage, etc. The concept really came about in a haphazard form - Luca popping in to say hey, we really need to use single tail-lights, another individual cming in to say that Daytona-esque hood vents are better, etc. Said designer eventually said that the car as it stands is so far removed from what he originally penned, it was amazing that it came from the same concept.

--Dan

 

I wouldnt buy the F599 as my only Ferrari if i had the $$. I like it but there are much more attractive Ferraris on the market for 280k$ .

A Stradale being one of them !

 

My guess is out the door, the car is ~350 (taxes, licensing, etc.).

--Dan

 

Not true. The F50 powerplant was based on the V12 F1 engines used in the 640/641 Formula one cars, NOT on the then current F1 engine (412 T2).
Boxers and many earlier Ferrari models had just as much racing technology input as an F50 has.

 

I don't have the details in front of me but I don't recall the BB being anywhere near the celebrated car the F50 was.

It's safe to say there were several reasons for this and the engine was only the beginning.

Feel free to post your evidence to the contrary.


Forza,


Cavallini

 

Why do you think it will be so much...? What was the sticker on 575Ms....? The 599 isn't a "limited edition" car like, say a Superamerica, so why do you think they'll be priced so highly...?

 

I was told $250 to $275.

Maybe now you understand why I want one. Closest I'll ever come to Enzo preformance.

Dale

 

I don't think the F50 is a celebrated car then or now, its always had controversial looks that some say are not very attractive including myself, it does have alot of technology, the F1 engine connection is questionable.

The BB flat12 based engine took Ferrari to 3 World Constructors Championships, it was Ferraris first mid engine flagship car and was a critical success heralded by the media and public, the F50 is overshadowed still by the F40 even with all its technology mainly because of its looks.

In the 70s the BB was Ferraris top of the line supercar of the era, the F50 was never viewed as the supercar of an era always overshadowed by the F40 and 288GTO.

 

Did you ever take a second to think that maybe 99% of the people under 35 CAN'T AFFORD one?

Hell if I had the money, I'd buy one....and I'm 29.

 

A few thoughts if I may. The designer of the 599 is a friend and he would be the first to tell you that designing a car involves a large team and many factors come into consideration. The aerodynamics of the 599 were very thought out and absolutely involved the aerodynamic engineers at Ferrari.

One "Criticism", that the 599 has a similarity to the ZO6 is interesting. My T-70 bears a similarity to my P 3/4 as it does to my MK-IV. In the metal these cars look quite different as the ZO6 and the 599 do, but there are many technical solutions that are the same because both cars were designed with the same parameters as were my T-70, P 3/4, and MK-IV, to win at Le Mans. (ZO6 and 599 in class). The 550 and 575's have made great race cars and the 599 will be even better. Ultimately The buttress acts as a winglet on a F1 car creating vortices's which serve to accelerate more air downward and thus create more down force, which of course then in turns helps the diffuser to work more efficiently. The subsequently channeled air (which would thus experience a pressure change) could in turn help to keep more air attached to the rear of the car and thus create more down force. It is interesting to note that the 599 needs no active spoiler a la the Merc SLR - another car with a similar mechanic layout and cooling solutions which would not be legal at Le Mans. To achieve this absolutely took input from Ferrari.

Any designer realizes that, unless he is designing something solely for himself, every design is a work for hire and that the paramount goal is to design something that will please the entity that commissioned it and that can be built and driven. While one can draw anything not everything drawn can be driven.

Of course Ferrari had massive input. This is exactly as it should be. The 599 was designed for them. Having spoken with the designer I can also state with absolute certainty that he welcomed this input and is happy that he and the team realized Ferrari's goals which, I for one think, resulted in a very special GT car that already has a large group of orders at dealers I've spoken too.

As the Good Doctor points out the 599 will be almost as fast as an Enzo, for much less money, and have enough room to transport two and their luggage at great speed in luxurious comfort. IMO it is modern day Lusso and the racing version of it will likely do at least as well as as the racing version of the Lusso the 330 LMB. Speaking of LMB's I saw a great one at Nick's today that is for sale. In the metal that one is very special as well.

 

Has your friend the designer made any comments on some of the crticism of the 599s design or is it not a concern?

 

Well said.

 

Interesting question. I think if any of us are honest we'd have to admit that we like praise and dislike criticism. Simple Human nature. That said I do think this car looks much better in the metal than many thought after viewing the first official photo's which IMO did not do the car justice. The flow through buttresses for example in the first photo's looked like photo shopped mistakes.

The LMB I saw today is a similar thing. In photo's a GTO looks much better.
In the metal the details of the LMB are stunning, the "Frenched" door handles and side marker lights. I think the details of the 599 are very special as well.

 

Interesting points. In fact, if you compare a Daytona to a C4 (I think) Corvette you will see similarities. I have never participated in designing a car. But if it is anything like designing a house, there are always tradeoffs. There is just no way to make everybody happy.

I think what is going on here is many of you are more interested in the visual appeal of a car than how it drives. The knock you off your feet looks of the new (and old) Lambos have left many of you lusting for Ferrari to do the same. Said another way, many of you want another F40.

However, it would be a mistake for Ferrari to try and out Lambo, Lambo. Different strokes and all that. Plus, Ferrari aimed this car at a totally different market than the boulevard cruisers. I will not know until I see one, but I'm guessing that red is not going to be the best color for this car. Maybe silver and red. Maybe burgundy and cream. Maybe TDF and black.

At the end of the day, the average V12 buyer IS over 50. You young studs go for the 360/430s, which are great cars. But the V12s are for driving. So yeah maybe my butt is a little bigger than yours, but that doesn't mean that I have forgotten how to rock 'n roll.

Dale

 

First post. Long time BMW enthusiast looking to get my first Ferrari. My first inclanation was to get a 430 Spider or CS. Reading many of these posts...the sophmoric ones too...it's hard to compare the 599 to the modern Bangled bimmer. maybe its my bimmer roots, but deep down inside the joy of BMW's was that first and foremost they weren't meant to be art, but meant to be driven, and be incorporated into your life. My concern with many of the choice in thismarque is that it may not be practical or possible...but to me the 599 offers the combination of uber sexy and practical. Oh...I'm 48. Is that old?

I have been lurking this board for awhile...I appreciate and can relate indirectly to the passion that I see to the marque. .and look forward to becoming a true member.

 

I showed the 599 pic to my doctor friends and they all pissed their pants with joy. They're thinking golf clubs, and dinner parties, being the BMOC. Funny thing, they're all broke with pension problems and not a single one can afford one. I wonder how much of the design is based on demographic marketing. Me on the other hand, have options and choices. And more golf club storage is not one of them.

 

Wrong kind of guys to own Ferrari. I'm a doc, my release is to drive'em as hard as possible as far as I can in an afternoon. I used to track/vintage race, but no time. Only thing a trunk is good for is luggage, quicklime, and a shovel.
My Maranello and Super trunks are used for my children's bookbags, my briefcase, and a weekend of luggage for brief trips with my wife. Occasionally groceries.
BMOC is pointless unless you use them. I won the parking lot GP, but I did it using them, not showing off. Not flashy colors, no bling. If a doc is broke, he didn't see the old days fading and move on to the new world. Doesn't surprise me they want to show off.
I too was a BMW annuity, but they are no longer fun to drive, nor easy to use. My Ferraris are far easier to use, and feel better than any BMW, even my Z8. I do miss my E36 M3, and my E39 M5, but neither made me feel like I do in my F-cars. Think of a Ferrari as an M-Car on steroids.
I am torn over keeping the 550, trading the Superamerica for the 599, or keeping SA and swapping 550 for 599. 550 is prettier than 599 or SA. 599 will be a missile. I'm leaning towards keeping 550, swapping SA for 599.
Several other vintage options there too, but none I can use as much as I like to use these cars.
599 will be a performance benchmark for Ferrari. Nearly an Enzo, for 1/3 the money. I still want the next Enzo, but the 599 is something to use. Hard. Often. No it isn't ravishingly beautiful but it really is purposeful. If I want beautiful, I have my Maranello. Which gets used the same way.
48 isn't old. Neither is 60. It's all in one's mind anyway. But @ 40-48-60, we can afford whatever we want, and have experience to remember what we DON'T want.
FWIW

 

Listen to my voice. Close your eyes. When you awake, you'll think 550, 550, 550, 500, Swap SA for 599 and give up 599 to your higher power, me.

God

 

Dear God:
620bhp seems to have altered my perceptions of healing. How better to smote thine enemies than with a Fiorano. Plus, this is TX, you can use a convertible about 2-3 months out of the year. I could keep SA and let ya have 599, but I'd need some healing myself
Good friend told me I really only need one car like this. We are so deep into wants that needs have become moot. Need to keep him the he11 away from my wife too.
The heathen

 

[grumbling] Now, where did I put those damn fireballs! [/grumbling]