general oil leak query

No that's cool. I would never say 10-15 years after, is bad workmanship.
Frankly, I would only say 2-3 years max. after that, it's a free for all.

Only used a 308, as Mr Moretti used it as example.

Can I go on record that my Alfas and Fiats don't leak after they got fixed.
It's like it was stated earlier, we non professional mechs can spend more time on a repair than the pros. Did I happen to mention it took me a month to do the belt change? I would do some work, come back after a couple of days, look at it, then come back after another couple of days. Don't think that would work for a living

 

Brian, this was not a crusade against mechanics, I was after some reasons that these engines may leak more than others

Are there any weak points that us weekend warriors who do work on cars should look out for in particular ?

The only car I have rebuilt that I have kept long term is the FIAT (27 years 25 since rebuild) and I'm wondering if the fact that I had it blueprinted and balanced may be a factor in the abscence of leaks or is it the fact that the fiat block is made of cast iron ?

I was taught also to do a 400 grit buff of the surface after making sure the surfaces were PERFECTLY clean as Verell mentioned for similar reasons (made sense to me at the time).

My GT4 leaked and was serviced by the dealer all of it's life with me, unfortunately I rolled the car the year I was going to do a rebuild so never got a chance to see if I could get it to stop leaking.

When doing gaskets is there a prefered brand like Ants2au uses (Hylomar) ?

Thanks for the feedback as I really hate cars that leak oil (hence my aversion to English cars and my strange attraction to Italian )

 

damn Ants, you're slower than me

I'm the same, do a little then think a bit about the BEST way to get the BEST result.

I'm sure the guys who have done this all their life and this is their living do most of what you and I do by instinct after all the time they've spent in their trade.

My dad taught me a lot of bad habits because he was poor (like us a hammer and chisel to get the nut off the front of the crank b/c he wouldn't buy the right tool for the job) but I've got lots of tools I've bought for one-off jobs and never used again but that is my aircraft training telling me to do the RIGHT thing

Ken, I really find it hard to believe you let that mechanic screw you over for $90/hr and he made so many stuff ups, glad you found someone else even if it was yourself

 

I think you will find that Ferrari motors share a common trait with other MFGs in the use of steel studs with aluminum castings. They are inherently difficult to seal and keep sealed. The main reason is the different rates of expansion between the two metals. Aluminum expands and contracts more easily with heating and cooling, and this action causes minute shifting to occur in the gasket area. Clamping them down to cure a leak can too often cause the gasket to squish out. This causes it to leak more, and if tightened more will cause the gasket to become compressed to the point of failure.
What is occuring is the aluminum is expanding, and as the fasteners will not allow it to move away from the gasket surface,it is naturally going to force it toward the gasket as it expands.

 

I agree, I abhor leaks as well and I was not kidding about white gloving it. In many other areas of auto work I have been involved in that was a goal and could often be achieved with meticulous prep.
I still try to keep these down to a dull roar but have come to the conclusion that with all the things done the way they are done Ferrari just isn't all that concerned and do not go to the lengths in the design phase the Japanese do to keep them dry.

The flat 12's are probably the worst and I have one of those. They need to be dipped in polyester resin to keep them dry.

In answer to your question I and most of the dedicated Ferrari people in the US use Loctite 518 anerobic sealant for the areas that do not require any "give". It is designed however to keep up with the large amounts of thermal expansion that is so great in some cases that the paper gaskets will not stretch enough (TR valve covers and heads sometimes stretch enough that the paper gaskets break). It can be used on gaskets but is particularly good on gasketless surfaces and is a must use in areas where oil passages pass like between TR +BB pan rails and engine blocks. It will not block oil passages like RTV will. In areas that need some give like around QV cam seal O rings Three Bond brand RTV #1211 is great. It is thin so will flow easily and has a very high adheasive and oil resistant ability. It is also white so looks like original on show cars. Those are the only 2 I use any more and I have been very happy with them.

I have said before I am not a fan of Hylomar but I will also say many products will work reasonably well with proper preperation, and nothing works without.

 

thanks for taking the time to explain and I am use to using Loctite products from my aircraft days so glad to see some things are constant.

Appreciated all input, just wondering whether I would go nuts trying to stop the car leaking.

Cheers

John

 

errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

 

Could another culprit for Ferraris leaking oil be the utilization of high volume oil pumps. I don't have any data to back that-up, but it seems on my 328 that there is lots of oil flying circulating around. On my BB Chevy, you could run it at idle with the valve covers-off (to adjust valves) but on the 328, when the oil filler cap is-off there seems to be a lot of oil circulating?

Mark

 

Yeah. The mantra I leaned in this group is, "I can screw up my car for a lot less than my mechanic can". The first major repair I did myself was replacing the master cylinder. I had never done that before, but got lots of tips from other Europa owners. Start to test drive was 5 hours total labor over 3 days. If I did it again I could do it in 2 I think. My mechanic would have taken a week and billed 10 hours I'm sure! Of course, I checked the brakes a lot that first week or so, but no problems now after 2 years.

Ken