Malaysian GP Race **warning**spoiler**

It is moving and hence illegal. It should be banned. Along with all the other nonsense other teams do as well, eg the flexing mirrors on the McLarens and Renault.

The race didn't quite live up to its promise. Rain would have made it a lot more entertaining. Alas. Too bad Nico's engine let go.

 

What I posted earlier this morning has much detail about the situation.

Here's another very good story regarding the wing:

Todt unmoved by front wing row

Ferrari sporting director Jean Todt has moved to downplay the controversy over the front wings of the team's 248 F1 - by insisting that he does not see a problem.

Visible flexing of the front wing elements of the Ferrari prompted eight of their rivals to write to the FIA on Sunday demanding clarification of the rules prior to the Australian Grand Prix.

Speaking on Sunday night, however, Todt said he was unmoved by the situation. He claimed that Ferrari had not done anything illegal, but said if the FIA wanted them to change the wings then they would happily comply.

"Ross (Brawn, technical director) has been talking to the FIA and they are happy about the legality of the car," explained Todt. "If there is something they want us to do we will do it. If it was outside the rules I don't think we'd be talking about this result."

When asked whether the team would be bringing different wings to the Australian Grand Prix, Todt responded: "We are not in Melbourne. Ask me then. I try to be a manager, not a technical director.

"The technical team will suggest what to do. You have to know your limits. I know mine."



I think Todt responsed in a very good way when asked about the wing.

Carol

 

Frankly, I'm getting tired of the same old Michelin "white-knuckle" commercial. Okay, so they added something different at the end, but basically, it's the same. Can't they come up with something new?

 

the only good tire commertial right now is the toyo one where they talk about the touring car championship becuase its the only one that says eveyone in a seriers uses one brand of tire...

 

I can see their point about the rear wing, however. But you would think that the FIA could easily test such things, ala Nascar, with stress tests. It shouldn't be an issue--it should be addressed and dispelled. Unless...

 

I can't add much to the whole 'Ferrari Wing' topic due to the fact that I saw very little of the race because I was just exhausted. I had a busy day yesterday and I honestly couldn't keep my eyes open at race time (of 2:00 AM - 4:00 AM!). I did see a small clip where the part was highlighted and seen shifting, though, and was commented on by the commentators. If it's an illegal part on the car, and Ferrari know this, then, as much of a fan as I am, I have to be unhappy with them. Cheating isn't something I approve of, no matter who does it. If it is, however, just a good idea Ferrari came up with that no one else thought of, resulting in the other teams whining, well, then that's pretty much self explanatory.

My condolences to Raikkonen and Rosberg.

My congrats to Fisichella.

Now, for a nearly unbearable two week wait...

Edit: Does anyone know where I can find the Malaysian GP episode of 'Inside Grand Prix' online? I heard Schumi was in it...

 

Ferrari tried this a few years ago with the front wings. Apparently there has always been a rule about any sort of movement on the wings so flexible wings were also banned to close the loophole. They must be fixed at all times, so Ferrari saying they "misinterepted" the rules is hogwash. They should have had thier results thrown out and banned for a race ala BAR last year but since they are Ferrari they get a slap on the wrist.

 

lucky thing it's 2 weeks, not 3 weeks. i can't wait too. lets see how the ferrari performs in cooler conditions, together with the tires...

 

This whole "wing" thing relates to aircraft too: high wing, low wing, or mid wing.

Mid wings are mechanically difficult to fasten to a monococque hull, but offer the best aerodynamics: Any surface joint creates parasitic drag; the sharper the angle, the more drag.

So it makes perfect sense to leave a gap between the upper wing element and the car nose: That's why they have the high nose cars with the wings mounted on pylons underneath in the first place. Ferrari simply left a gap on the upper element, rather than fasten it to the nose, creating parasitic drag.

But the vibration on track is being attacked as a "variable" wing. Balderdash. It simply indicates that Ferrari came up with a smart idea the others didn't. Perfectly acceptable in a constructors' championship; improper for a "spec" series.

So which is F1?

Here you see the worst elements of democracy: pulling down anyone who rises above the herd.

 

What smart idea would this be, it had been done before and was banned. How does Ferrari trying to circumvent the rules by trying it on the rear wing instead of the fronts make them smart? All the other teams wing don't flex because they are legal. If Ferrari was so sure they were right and had such a wonderful idea why did they not fight for thier idea when the FIA told them to make new wings? They knew they were wrong and all but admitted it by not arguing with the FIA

 

Agreed.

IMHO Ferrari is breaking the rules in their front and rear wing design:

In the rear wing they don't have the center post to keep the two wings from closing the gap and hence producing more downforce (by not letting air escape in between). Other teams have an element in between to prevent that flexing.

On the front wing they have chosen not to attach the upper element to the bodywork so it can flex down under pressure and hence create more downforce/optimize the airflow (the FIA raises that wing every year by its rules to decrease downforce and speed).

Both cases happened deliberately and in both occasions the rule they are breaking is the one against moving aero parts. Being a successful F1 team they had to try this and see whether they can get away with it. I expect no less of them. Now they've been caught and so they address the situation. They wouldn't have caved in so fast if they knew they were in the right.

 

Gronk?

I'm talking about the front (url) wing.

The rear wing has already been scrutineered by the FIA at Bahrain.

It's the front wing that's come under attack, after the TV pictures showed the wing vibrations causing the gap size to vary.

An intentionally moving rear wing would indeed be contrary to previous findings. The question is whether it really does move all that much. The FIA didn't think so, but teams have tacked on that question to the one about the front wing. I guess if you're none too sure about the validity of your complaints, you can always back them up with the number of complaints, to make the accused look "more guilty" of something.

Vibration is something that you simply cannot avoid on a racing car (or on your street car, for that matter). Whether the gap size variation due to vibration constitutes a "variable geometry" wing that gives the Ferrari an illegal edge is the official question -- but the one being raised to the public is whether it moves at all, with the implication that if there's vibration, then they can't be different from everyone else. (If "true" = "true" then you lose.) Having the gap in the first place would be a static aerodynamic innovation -- which would only be out of bounds in a spec series.

Even the wording of the complaint is an appeal to FIA's "spec" approach to "saving money": If FIA doesn't ban Ferrari's wing, everyone else will have to copy it. (Oh, poor us.) To me, that sounds exactly like a complaint that Ferrari thought up something everyone else missed.

 

Excuse my ignorance, i watched the race late and didn't think Ferrari would be dumb enough to try what they tried several years ago and was already banned. Yes, while vibration is unavoidable on a racing car it is clear that the Ferrari's wing was designed to expand and flatten at high speed hence the play which is seen on the onboard cam. If it were just a vibration the wing would have broken off the car but it was built with some play to account for the expansion. Sounds like a moveable wing which breaks the rules. The bottom line is no other teams wings move at all because they followed the rules. Ferrari didn't and was "smart" enough to put and on board camera right at the front wing so the world could see them cheating. Real bright idea....

 

I missed a couple of seasons, but I don't recall ever seeing a slot gap front wing in the 10 years they've been using high nose cars. What year was that?

 

Can anyone here link me to a file of the latest episode of 'Inside Grand Prix' (Malaysia Preview)?

 

The first Ferrari flexible front wing was thought to be used all the way back in 1997 believe it or not. This is an old article from 99 i think, addressing that very subject. http://www.atlasf1.com/99/aus/preview/grapevine.html

 

Does anyone have any pics of this wing? I have never heard of this before.... how does it work?

 

have a close look : post #12 i think

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98251

 

I thought it was Rosberg that did the swerving ... could be wrong.

Did not watch the race after Webbers engine blew but I guess I have to say good drive by Massa.

Personally I do not think the Ferraris have the performance yet, and reliability, thus MS simply followed him home instead of risking anything.

The McLarens IMO are playing the wrong strategy and starting with too much fuel. Yes their cars are fast and I guess they are hoping to qualify well with heavy fuel ... but they are NOT qualifying well and thus getting stuck mid grid, and thus getting involved with first lap dramas, etc.

I think McLaren (who have tried this strategy for the last 3 years) should drop it and stick the cars on the front row and win a bloody race. Renault won a championship by playing simple strategy and sticking their cars on the front row and thus keeping out of trouble ...

Agree Fisi cannot handle pressure ... Alonso will wind it on, actually Fisi will wind it on with a mistake or just thinking about the future.

Pete