Sequential Gearbox Mechanism . . . F1 tranny? | FerrariChat
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Sequential Gearbox Mechanism . . . F1 tranny?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by luckydynes, Mar 28, 2006.

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  1. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #1 luckydynes, Mar 28, 2006
    Hey all,

    Can someone explain or link me to the overall operation of a sequential gearbox . . . drawings or photos would be great . . . are they basically like a motorcycle tranny? . . . I'm not sure if these are "all the same", but the tranny's I tinkered with had a "drum" that slid the shifter forks . . .


    Is the F1 tranny on the 355's and 360's sequential, or is it the same "H" pattern tranny as the manual and the F1 mechanism manipulates the individual shift rods . . . or???? Inquiring minds want to know!!!!!

    Thanks,

    Sean
     
  2. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    #2 Rifledriver, Mar 28, 2006

    A motorcycle trans is a good example of a sequential but the prob are other designs as well.

    An F1 in 360, 355, 575 etc is not a sequential but exactly the same unit as a std shift with an electro hyd unit in place of the shifter. The transmissions are interchangeable.
     
  3. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

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    #3 parkerfe, Mar 28, 2006
    FYI, the new BMW M5 SMG was designed as an SMG and is a cylinder type like on motorcycles and is not the same as a traditional stick shift manual .
     
  4. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #4 luckydynes, Mar 28, 2006

    Thanks . . . . do you mean "this year" new or does the SMG in the 2000 on M3's have a true sequential box also?

    Sean
     
  5. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #5 luckydynes, Mar 28, 2006

    Thanks for clarifying that . . .

    Sean
     
  6. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

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    #6 parkerfe, Mar 28, 2006
    It is my understanding that the new 7 speed SMG in the M5 is the first "production car" with a gearbox specifically designed as an SMG...in fact, on the M5 1st and 2nd gears are housed to the side of the other 5 gears in an entirely seperate housing...at least from what I've read...all other paddle shifters are modifications of a traditional stick-shift gearbox.
     
  7. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #7 luckydynes, Mar 28, 2006

    Thanks
     
  8. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #8 mk e, Mar 28, 2006
    I've been meaning to pull the linkage stuff out of my 308 trans and install a shift drum creating a sequential gear box…and it is out of the car at the moment…..
     
  9. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #9 luckydynes, Mar 28, 2006
    Mark,

    I was contemplating this also . . . save me some time though . . . I'd happily take a second set of parts off your hands!!!!

    I've got a spare gearbox for r&d . . . a drum would fit nicely where the current linkage is . . . I would be a little concerened about the loads/wear the synchro engagement create on a drum/shift fork linkage . . . aren't most sequential boxes dogs instead of synchro's? . . . awesome idea though . . . and like I said, I'll happily be your test mule, not that you need one!!!

    Sean
     
  10. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #10 mk e, Mar 28, 2006
    Sean,
    I sensed that was where you were headed. I also noticed a drum would fit easily in place of the stock stuff. I am a little concerned about the loads/wear as well, but honestly the drum would be programmed to move everything the same as the as it would with the lever...just without all the linkage adjustment problems and the awkward doglegs in the pattern. the real down side is not being able to skip second when its cold. Mine doesn't have a problem with 2nd, but a lot of people say they do have a problem.

    The other thing I've though about is a vw/audi DSG gear box. The one I drove was really really nice...I'm just concerned about how strong it is (only offered with the turbo 4) and how hard it would be to get the controler spliced in.
     
  11. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #11 luckydynes, Mar 28, 2006
    Won't need any programming if you just make the tranny sequential . . . I've seen race cars that have a throttle kill on the shift lever but this was a dog box which also where they were shifting without a clutch (I think) . . . I think we'd still be using the clutch on the 308 unless you were real brave ;-) . . . maybe you're thinking the full F1 actuation/engine blipping etc.? . . . I would just "settle" for yanking the lever in either direction for now . . . maybe you can just whip that up in your spare time? ha ha

    Sean
     
  12. luckydynes

    luckydynes F1 Rookie

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    #12 luckydynes, Mar 28, 2006
    The "drum" that I've seen on cycle trannys has "peripheral" grooves in it that essentially sync/indexes the movement of the shift rods as it rotates . . . all mechanical . . . transfering of the rotary motion into side/slide motion on the rails IN the groove is where I think there's a load that's much different than with current set up.

    PLEASE do not let my hypothesizing prevent you from proceeding though!!!!



    Sean
     
  13. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

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    #13 mk e, Mar 28, 2006
    That's what I meant by program...the sequence and timing of the shifting, nothing with the ecu.

    I really don't think the loads from the drum would cause a problem, but could be eliminated with a linkage.
     
  14. dgrperformance

    dgrperformance Formula Junior

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    #14 dgrperformance, Mar 29, 2006
    if what your planning is to convert a traditional gearbox to sequential shift you will also have to consider that rotating drum constant mesh gear boxes use a completly different gear set up. To add a machined drum for the shift forks to ride in will give you the desired up down set up for shifting but you will still need to use the clutch pedal everytime you shift. Take a look at a motorcyle gear set and you will see what I am talking about. they use straight cut gears that are in constant contact with their counterparts and when moved towards the driven gear they have a elongated slot that engages a set of pins and therefor gives a positive lock. I have worked on various cars with sequential boxes CART, Supertouring, GT and Offraod and the major problem is adapting the set up so that it can handle the added torque and loads generated by the heavier vehicle. Your best bet would be to buy and old race car gearbox and adapt the pieces to fit inside whatever case you are using.

    Zac
     

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