The new 997 GT3 at the hands of Walter Roehrl is 5 (YES 5) seconds per lap quicker around the Nordschleife than the 996 GT3 however the 997 GT3 is 9 (that's NINE) seconds quicker than a F430 F1 driven by the same Walter and it is $60 K cheaper.......... When is our beloved Ferrari going to wake up??? Even me, the die-hard F-lover is getting tempted...... The RS version will be even quicker and comes out this fall. The line starts here !
Ouch, Porsche is turning the notch up. Time to see a CS version of the F430. Doesn't have to be called the CS, but the same idea implied.
Right Kevin but NINE seconds is a lifetime and when all is equal we don't mind paying through the nose but NINE seconds and 60 big ones...... I have to tell you that I am getting a little fed up!
No, I completely understand where you're coming from. Nine seconds is huge on the track. Personally I don't track any of my cars, I use them on the street so it doesn't bother me that much. But you and others have every right to be fed up. Maybe contact Ferrari and see if you can talk to someone in a higher position and see how they respond?
My friend is #2 on the GT3 list. I'm not sure if he's going to take it, but I don't see how he can pass it up.
LOL, I guess thats a ratio thats gona be more and more popular. Aynways, remember the basics, competition is alllways good, even if it means loosing once in a while. And heres a nice video of the dear GT3 http://coochas.com/porsche/Resources/997GT3vid1.wmv
But Peter, you were the strongest supporter of the CS with positive comments on its responsiveness, fun to drive, soul aspect ... does lap times really matter? Are you racing someone? On a side note, I find it impressive that the GT3 with only 400bhp (deficit of about 100 bhp) and maybe slightly lower weight than the 430 can beat it so comprehensively at N'ring.
the 997 gt3 is going to be 420hp, and it will weight at least 300lbs less than the 430....and also, porsche is conservative with its hp ratings and ferrari is not....
Official figures from Porsche site is 415 bhp and 3075 lbs. From what I have heard, the improvements come from added chassis rigidity as in all 997 with bonding in key areas in addition to welding. Suspension geometry had been revised from racing from mk1 GT3 to mk2 to GT3RS and GT3RSR mostly improving front end grip. Given that mk2 GT3 was supposed to be 381 bhp and many cars have dyno'd on chassis dyno between 350-360 whp in stock form, the bhp rating is probably under-rated. I have a CS and a 996 GT3, I am not sure if I will get a 997 GT3 just yet even thought I have a spot with my dealer. I will wait until it arrives and see how it drives. The CS and the GT3 just drive so differently and such a different kind of fun. Somedays I like the CS better, and somedays I like the GT3 better. At the end, they are both very special cars. I certainly hope the 997 GT3 is as well. And I am sure Ferrari will respond, but history suggest that Ferrari will take too long. New cars will continue to come out and be faster. So I don't worry about if a new car is faster, but if I like the way it drives. I drove the c6 Z06 Vette. Very fast, very impressive...what a package for the price...but I didn't feel the urge t have one. To be fair, I felt the same way about a 911 GT2...just didn't do it for me. I do however really love the way a CGT drives...
Note that 9 seconds in an 8 minute lap is a 1.9% difference or equivalent to just over 1.5s of difference on a generic 90s lap.
I agree, as much as I love Ferraris, one thing that has always been missing for me is their absence in sports car racing. I was very excited when they produced 360GT and even seeing the Prodrive 550 really helps. But a 1-make series will only advance the car so far. Porsche does the 1-make GT3 cup, but the cars are also competing in many other series and are competitive; and continues to evolve and improve the car. This is what is missing with Ferrari. I had also lost the love for Porsche for a long time until they started showing that they are actually doing racing to improve the breed...again. In fact, I had been disappointed with 911s with the exception of GT3. Ferrari has done a great job making great cars and supplying a great driving experience. I just wish they would be willing to support sports car racing programs to improve the breed that pays and funds their F1 efforts.
i have the 1st delivery of a gt3 but i bet most of the time difference can be made up if the 430 was lowered with more neg camber (the suspension is adjustable, no?) and had r rated tires.
Sorry there are just too many variables to read too much into these times. The Ring requires almost 8 minutes of driving. During that time, driver experience and knowledge with the car, the weather, road conditions, temperature, car setup, tires and on and on all play a huge role in lap times. Since the difference as was pointed out was less than 2% the Ring time difference was insignificant. Drivers on the same day in the same car have had time differences of 10 sec. In short, Ring times are over emphasized and DO NOT indicated over all car capabilities. I do not say this to belittle Porsche's. They are engineered to do well on the Ring. Keep in mind, W. Rorhrl is a factory driver for Porsche. I doubt he has spent a lot of time in a Ferrari. You did not believe for one second a Ferrari in his hands will do better than a Porsche?
I think the gt3 is going to be insane. I have a deposit on one and have been offered the first one from dealer, however I am going to wait until a few more options become available. Duane
but we must remember that f430 was designed to be a road car - A very sporty road car. I read in an top gear article where Matteo Lanzaveccia (the guy responsible for the F430) was qouted saying 'It (The F430) maximizes the performance of the car for the normal driver'. I think a lot of efficient compromises has been done to balance the performance of the car for varied skill ranges. And with compromises, i think that performance for the better drivers have been toned down a bit. I think thats the whole point of the F430 rather than being a psuedo-hardcore track monster built for fearless left foot breaking racer types. To see if he is right though, one must put a not so good driver on both the f430 and on the gt3 and see the lap times.
I was told this morning that my GT3 will get to the dealership in late August. I had a choice between taking it first or the 997 TT coupe first (I'm getting the first TT Cab at the dealership instead and dealer is not certain when that will get here). I think the 997 GT3 will be a HUGE hit, bigger than the 996 GT3. It will be considerably faster and it's a better looking car. That Porsche can get 415+HP out of a normally aspirated flat six is astonishing to me.
I can't imagine getting excited about this. Nine sec at the Ring is not an overwhelming amount; Walter R is a Porsche expert so I have no idea how good he is in a mid-engine car; what were the tires on the GT3 vs those on the 430; what was the weather during both runs; Porsche optimises their cars on the Ring, not true for Ferrari...and that just scratches the surface. In the real world, on a "normal" road course, tires equalized, with a driver with extensive experience in both mid and rear engine cars, and I would bet the difference would be less than 1 sec. - and I don't know which would be faster. Gary
For perspective, some Hockenheim times from Sport Auto: F430 F1: 1.12,7 911 GT3: 1.13,2 911 GT2: 1.12,6 911GT3RS 1.11,8 (racetires) Ford GT 1.14,1 And no, frankly I don't put any more stock in these times than the Ring results. In denial? What are you thinking, that I can't afford a GT3? I would buy one immediately if I thought it would light my fire like the 430 does. I haven't driven the 997 version of course, but the 996 GT3, while a very nice car, is in no way a car that would tempt me out of my 430. Gary
