What went wrong in Miami?

This was a young man that was just not ready for the speeds on these fast ovals. Used to be, that before you could compete in an event like this, they would have required substantially more experience. Now to fill the field, or in the case of Dana, the sponsorship money a driver brings, is more important than their skill level.

Maybe we need to create a "superlicense" qualification in this country?

 

Paul was more than qualified...

 

It is nice to see that Paul's friends support him all the way.

I'm just wondering how the sentiment would be if the accident would have gone a bit different, more in the way like Zanardi's? What if Carpenter had died and Paul walked away?

There is a reason F1 requires a superlicense. Even talented guys like Kimi Raikkonen have been put on probation for his first year in F1 because he made a jump from F3 (?) straight into F1.

 

Agree with NRG, and find the author of that article to be a complete horse's ass, profoundly ignorant.

Probably never will have all the facts.

Spotter told him to go low - he did.

Another thought - Possibly trying out a changed setup in the precious short time of a morning warmup - spotter says "yellow," you think crap, there goes the session, every corner is precious. Those of you who race know that even a yellow is more complex than a simple "slow down."

Paul Dana, rest in peace.

 

You can try to make sense out of what happened but it will never work. Having driven on ovals (Chicagoland MotorSpeedway in Joliet) in a full scale Indy car (Andretti Racing School) your visibility is severly limited and your concentration is at a peak. That being said, the spotter is there to tell you what is going on and alert you to dangers. 8 seconds went by between the yellow coming out and the crash, that's 1/3 of a lap, others were able to slow down in that amount of time, nothing about this makes sense.

Maybe the only "good thing" (not good but I can't think of any better word) is how shocked we all are. This means that death is not commonplace, that even though it is ever present, it is not expected, that racing is safer now than at any point in history.

Let us not forget that while this is tragic, Mr. Dana died doing what he loves. Not riddled with cancer, AIDS, etc or in a nursing home unable to take care of himself. He died doing what he loved, his passion, and while it is certainly tragic, we should all be so lucky to go out doing what we love.

 

You did not understand my comment. Bottom line, even the other drivers at the track acknowledged that Paul Dana was not ready for such high speed racing. Probably half the drivers on that track that day are not fully ready for such intense speeds. Robin Miller, a former driver himself, interviewed other drivers for SpeedTV and they all reached the same conclusion. If you noticed, the other drivers did slow down. Only one did not.

This absolutely has nothing to do with Paul Dana as a person, I do not know him, and from the glowing reports he was a real gentleman. But it has something to say that sponsorhip money precludes experience and training. This applies to IRL, F1, etc. In years past, you could not even race at Indianpolis unless you were successful at a series of long term tests. That does not exist today. That was the basis for my comment. Maybe as I previously said we need to have a "superlicense" in US racing. Anything to prevent another death in motorsports.

We can agree to disagree, but from your short fused response, I think it is you that has crossed that line into equine anal behavior. I appreciate the feeling of loss as I too was saddened when I heard the news. But if as you hypothesized, to see a yellow, have a spotter tell you of a yellow, and ignore it for the purpose of chassis set-up and not immediately lift, that is not the sign of a professional driver, nor a reasonable excuse. It endangers the other drivers on the track which no one has the right to do. I would like to think that this was not the case at Homestead.

I can not imagine any driver wanting to be on the same track with this careless thinking.

 

Boxer 12: Good post. Thank you for your understanding. There is something to be learned from everything. The fact is, accidents happen. That is why they are called accidents. I hit a wall at VIR last year in the Grand-am race and was completely fine...these types of things happen.

I just feel like too many "know-it-all's" are posting things without having any credibility or knowledge about the dynamics of racecars. 8 seconds is HUGE. No doubt. There are too many variables that are on the table. I have only seen a few clips of the incident because I choose to watch them.

I believe that the IRL cars are too fast and do not really have a place on an oval track. I do not want to start an IRL/CART war, but seriously, these cars were not designed to go on an oval. You can have fantastic racing at speeds lower than 200mph. This is just merely my opinion. If I was provided an opportunity to race in IRL, I honestly believe I would pass it up. The cars are for road courses.

Bottom line is, racing is dangerous. Paul lost his life in a racing incident. Last week, Josh Rehm, another racer and aquaintance, lost his life in a traffic accident at home. He was only 27. As a driver and team owner, I cannot live with the fear of death everytime I strap into one of our racecars. I respect the presence of danger, but it is not my focus.

Thank you to everyone who has shown support. I have a passion for motorsports that goes beyond what most could ever imagine. This was not the first loss of a friend, nor will it be the last.

 

Very unfortunate accident, probably preventable, could have been even worse. Imagine what would have happened if emergency vehicles and crew had already been on the scene of Carpenter's accident when Dana arrived at full speed.

I'm still fully expecting a major, major disaster to happen in open wheel racing. Like the LeMans disaster. A car in the crowd, exploding in flames, 50 or more people dead. The end of racing as a spectator sport. Sorry for the rant.

 

I sincerely hope that I did not sound like I was trying to come across as a know-it-all. I am saddened by the death though I did not know him as I would be for any other racer. I really think the issue comes from trying to explain something that doesn't necessarily have an explanation.

I talked about this with my mechanic (used to be on Penske's crew). He said that his issue with the IRL is that due to speeds and proximities, there is no such thing as a small crash.

I don't know what the answer is, I don't think there is one. I just hope that somehow his family finds peace and that he is in a better place.

 

I would think everyone here would run to push "the easy button" so they could go back in time and somehow prevent this accident. For the last 30 years every time this happens I feel a shortness of breathe and a lump in my stomach. If you are a motorsports fan, it does not matter if you know the driver or not, it is still a personal loss.

Jackie Stewart was a major force for racing safety, and his concept was to learn from mistakes. If nothing is learned from Paul Dana's accident, it will be for nothing. I can tell from some of his friends comments that this person deserves much more than nothing.

We must learn from this, whether we like the answer OR NOT. Driver error is not easy to accept, but acceptance leads to better preparation in the future.

This might be extreme, but maybe the ovals could use something as drastic as the electronic rev limiter used when entering F1 pits. When there is a yellow at a certain point on the track the rev limiters are instituted, slowing the car down automatically.

 

NRG,
my sympathies.

As I said before, we will never know what the problem was. For all we do not know, the communication cable might have dislodged and he was out of communication. He may have thought he was in turn 1 or 2 and was in 3 or 4 (don't remember which turn it was).

We will never know what made him stay on the gas and not reduce speed. The next question is, even if he would have, would the accident have been avoided.

We are all speculating here.

One thing I agree is that IRL should not run in ovals. They should in fact run road courses only. Real racing (as far as I am concerned).

Jim:
as for the 8 seconds, yes that is a lot which leads me to believe there is/was a lot more to this story than we can ever find out. Paul Dana is certainly qualified. Accepting this, there has to be more to this and unfortunately the person that has the answers will not be able to give them to us.

 

Now that I agree with. I've felt from the start of the IRL that they have far too many races on high-speed ovals.

Think back to the '70s, when USAC also ran nearly all the Indycar races on oval tracks. The only really "high speed" tracks they ran on were the Triple Crown tracks: Indy, Ontario, Pocono. All the other ovals were much slower, such as Phoenix, Milwaukee, and tracks no longer with us like Trenton.

If the IRL wants to continue to race on ovals, they should stick to a high-speed Triple Crown (Indy, California, Texas, perhaps?) and move the other oval races to more moderate tracks. You can still have wheel-to-wheel racing there!

 

I've got to give all of you a compliment for being so respectful of each other's posts. Perhaps it's because of the unfortunate circumstances that led to this thread, but regardless I'm glad to see that this took a positive direction rather than one of name-calling and arguing.

NRG, I'm sorry that you had the added loss of Paul being a friend. Do chat sites like this, when kept positive, help to cope with it? Or does it only serve as a reminder? I would hope that talking about the loss would help to provide some catharsis.

Finally, if you get the inspiration, post some pictures of your team and bring us into your racing world a little bit. It would be cool to have another driver to follow and pull for

 

I am sure Paul Dana was a good driver, but from what I saw and what I have heard(Friends of mine who have raced with him) he had no business being in that car. No disrespect to him, I am sorry for what happened to him, may he RIP. But driving a Cart, Indycar and F1 are totally different animals from touring and GTcars. You have to be exceptional to drive F1 or Indycar. For example look at the race itself, Helio and Whledon side by side for the remaining 10 laps without hitting each other. They are the type drivers that can drive those cars. 8 seconds is alot of time for them react. I have to agree with several of the posts on this thread. Firstly indycars and Cart should not be racing on ovals, no matter how fast they are going. Anything openwheel that is full throttle around a track side by side with others is a recipe for disaster. This is why you do not see F1 racing ovals, it just to dangerous. I even heard Schumacher in a interview which asked him a question about him racing the Indy 500, " He just said No, way too dangerous." Secondly yes the IRL and Cart should make it mandatory that every driver needs some kind of superlicense to compete. Again, Paul Dana was good driver, but not good enough for the IRL. May he RIP.

 

you dont relise what its like racing on a high speed oval. When your going at speeds that they go and the vibration in the car reduses your vision down to a woppoing 65 %. so when a yellow comes out try seeing a flag thats a 1m 500mm at 220mph its like tunnel vision boys.

 

That might be the case, but if it is that hard to see a yellow, then something is inherently wrong with the sport.

 

Ron, the article I called "ignorant" was the Sun Times article referred to in post #9, not anything you wrote. Like Giles, I'm angry about the folks who ignore racing until something interesting - death - happens. I saw a bit of this morbidity in that article, and also on MSNBC - roll tape of crash, criticize racing - repeat several times. I also feel the condescension the press has towards racing - one sees it often in The Washington Post, which gives far more coverage to the WNBA than it does to any form of racing.

I did not mean to call you or your comments ignorant, and if I seemed to be doing so, I apologize! I very much appreciate your posts on this and other topics.

I stand by my comments about yellow flags, however. In a warmup/last practice, there are conflicting feelings when a yellow or black comes out; I tried to make clear my comments were purely speculation as they relate to Paul Dana - I think everything here is speculation.

12 years after the fact, can we say with certainty why Senna died? Has that ever been resolved?

 

Bingo Andreas, you have it right on.

Yellow lights, yellow flags, acknowledge warning from the spotter, almost 8 seconds pass, every other driver slows. Wasn't this a full course yellow? Even if radio was not working, basic race school training tells you what yellow flags mean.

Possibly throttle stuck?

As I position myself behind a wall so I don't get hit by words to be thrown at me for saying this, but the odds of driver error being the cause of this accident are very very great. To me, admitting the truth, is worth saving a life in the next terrible mishap

 

How about this
"Go Low"
"Go Slow"
You try saying them quickly dont they sound awefully/ horribly similar. Maybe Dana mis heard the comm's ??
And yellow flags can be almost impossible to see and must be even harder to see on road circuits with there huge run off area's I have seen the odd race where the flag is surely several metres away from the side of the track, now how the hell are you going to see that. Is it time to perhaps look at having some sort of override on the cars which will automatically slow them under yellow or dangerous period. I mean with on - board computer power avaiable on race cars nowadays it could be done. Could be controlled by the cheif steward or equivelant so that no one gains any form of advantage. Yes/ No ??

But RIP Dana
Tim

 

I'm not sure this ever got fully implemented, but there was talk about lights in the F1 cockpits replicating the signals from the stewarts. It was mostly because of Monaco.

We have the technology (GPS info on all cars for instance). It might be worth it.

 

But he was still the only driver not to slow down. Even with no radio, a driver MUST understand the importance of seeing and obeying a yellow flag/light. That is the sign of a qualified driver. Winning a race is not as important as living to race the next one.

My first time on a banked oval was full of disorientation, its like being in a bowl and it almost appears the track is going uphill, causing a blind spot of sorts. From that you learn to drive far ahead of the nose of your car, I was told when you enter turn one, if possible look ahead to turn two, etc. This also also helps avoid debris that can cut a tire. And avoids other cars that are stalled on the track. At 200mph, this concept becomes even more critical.

Earlier in this thread I suggested using a similar rev limiter as is used in F1 for entering the pits. This may not work all the time, as a sudden loss of power may through off the car's balance. But this is the start of new thinking!

 

Thank you for being truthful. No way to see this any differently. If the throttle was not stuck wide open, the ONLY other answer was driver error.

From this I do not blame this young man for trying. But we need to have the equivilent of a superlicense in this country. Unfortunetely, such a requirement would eliminate 90% of the current drivers in IRL and Champ Car.