35,000 miles and 11+ years on belts!

The point of this thread and many like it is to gather information. Some people like yourself don't seem to be interested in real life expieriences that document longer belt life. Ignore it if you aren't interested. Personally I like lots of information. It allows you to make a much more educated conclusion.

 

I change mine every 3 years or 30K miles which ever is first. Normally, 3 years is first. I had a case where one of my tensioner bearings started to make noise after 1 1/2 years. It wasn't due to operator/installation error just a bad bearing.

 

I don't get it - while three years seems a bit excessive I don't understand why anyone would let their belts go longer than 5 years. It seems like a majority of 3x8 owners do some or most of their own work. While I was a bit nervous when I changed my belts it wasn't difficult and cost less than $200. Even if you have someone else change the belts (belts only) every 5 years at $1000-$1200 it's breaks down to $200 - $300 per year. Why would anyone risk the consequences of not changing them?

 

I agree that every 3 years is excessive and I believe that alot of the hype about every 5 years is for the dealerships to make money, but 11 years is a gamble that I wouldn't want to take. The belt service only would have been a nice option, but when I called the dealership in my area they refused to do only the belt service and wanted $4,900 or more for the major. I don't believe that any car should need a major service every 5 years unless the mileage is excessive, but when you only put 3k miles on the car since the last major my question is why does it need everything again? To me it was just a way to screw the customer during a slow time.

 

i think it is better to do a major service than just replace the belts, on the long run it's cheaper, because if you only change belts and 200 miles later something else fails(that was gonna be replace or check at the major service) you'll have to pay the labor all over again

so it's more money know but it could save you money on the long run

or maybe not, pure luck if you ask me

 

Another data point: I bought an 85 308 in 1999 which had 31K on it and the original belts. I did have it shipped straight to my mechanic for service however. Obviously, the older they are, the greater the odds of failure, but they do not fail one day after five years. I think some of the premature failures come from other causes or improper installation and/or retensioning which is not supposed to be done.

Does anyone have firsthand knowlege of a failure on a 328? It occurred to me I could not think of hearing of one.

Dave

 

I believe the vast majority of belt failures go unreported for more than obvious reasons. The 328's are now nearing the age where the 308's started to fail more often, and thier general mileages are also coming up.

I appologise if I seem rather crass about this subject, but these cars are not growing on trees, they are a short finite supply, and so are the parts. While the 308 may be one of the largest number of cars produced, my feeling is that probably far less than a quarter of them still exist. Taking chances on the possible destruction of irreplaceable machines just does not make any real sense to me. They dont always just bend some valves, sometimes they blow so hard they take out the block, and in one case I know of even the gearbox. I think we could try a bit harder to preserve some of whats left for future owners is all I am trying to say.

 

HOLY STATISTICS BATMAN!!!!!

Less than 25% of the entire 308 series is left???? Oh my gosh! Someone please sell me theirs before they are all gone!



Seriously, I would hope this is not the case.

my

 

I'm not sure it's that low. Yet.

 

I am not so sure. Hemmings had 308 parts ads back as early as I started reading them, at least early 1980's. Since the mid 90's when I became more deeply involved and interested, I have seen so many of them parted out I cannot begin to count. In addition, TRutlands alone has been parting out and breaking up 308's almost exclusively for over a decade. In 2001 when I visited them, I was told on average they are parting out two per week. Norwoods was doing the same, as were several other places. Now recall all the ads on eBay for burned cars over the last several years, flood cars, storm cars, accident cars, and neglected cars. Australia has salvage houses, so does europe, we are not alone in cutting up the remains. If 10 per week are destroyed worldwide, and if that has been happening over only the last 10 years, that would have disolved of some 5200 cars. If over the last 30 years only 3 per week have been lost, its still almost as many. Thats over 2/3 of the entire production right there.

 

I still think those numbers are high. My guess is that more than 50% of them are still out there, probably closer to 66%.

 

I agree.

And don't forget, junk yards are like battle sites. Body counts get exaggerated and once you get the parts spread out all over it looks worse than it is.

 

Well, if TR and only one other shop in the entire world have only consumed 2 cars per week over the last 15 years, thats already almost half the cars. Last time I was at TR is seen a pile of about 25 engine blocks, all 308, all destroyed beyond repair. In talking several years ago with Norwood, they had a simular pile. But we have more like 30 years time, and in all that time a lot of other cars burned to the ground. No parts, no left over engine, nothing.

Now add up cars Shaunessy, Dennis Mcann, Italian Design, and many others have cut up over the years, not counting private parties through Hemmings, and that hick salvage yard in Arkansas. They cut up three in the last year and a half that I know of. I have parts in the garage off of two of them. Thats just in the US alone, not anywhere else worldwide, yet I know OZ has salvaged more than a few, as has europe.

In any case, we can agree somewhere less than half still exist, not a great number by any means, and of those left how many will remain? The two I have in the garage, the one (21181) will probably end up parted out, because as much as people love them, the car wouldnt be worth restoring without the motor, probably not even with. So chalk up another one.

 

Okay, so when I'm Ferrari shopping and the owner says his car is "well maintained" I'll just assume I have 11 year old belts with 35k miles on them, on a car that's occasionally tracked and not babied. ;>)


Ken

 

I guess the question I can't figure out the answer to is when you obviously do some (all?) of the work yourself & so when the procedure is therefore fairly inexpensive (certainly against the cost of rebuilding heads), why on earth would you run this risk?

I've never met a mechanic yet who thought leaving timing belts on for more than 5 or 6 years was a good idea on any car regardless of mileage. My own Ferrari mechanic who I know doesn't try & sell me stuff I don't need wouldn't dare go as far as 5 years on 3x8 belts based puerly on material degradation/weakening (regardless of mileage).

Clearly you got away with it, but I still can't figure out why you'd run such a risk!

I.

 

Does he pay the bill if they do break at say 5 years? If so, can I have his number please!

I.

 

Funny how when belts or belt systems are mentioned, along comes the LIABILITY topic. IMO how long you wish to wait, or what belts/drive system you choose, it is the OWNER that makes the decision. The belt topic has been well enough discussed to give anyone a pretty good undestanding of the situation.
Ya want a warrentee? Go to Midas. Want to put off changing the belts? no problem, but it is your shake of the dice isn't it? Life is a gamble. Win some, lose some. good luck

 

My only point is that many people are coming here for advice as first time Ferrari owners, or speculating about owning one. I feel it is our duty to prescribe the best maintainence intervals that are generally accepted, in an effort to keep others from damaging thier hard earned investment. Certainly its your car, do whatever you want with it. You can take a match and burn it to the ground if you so wish, but at least try not to convince others to follow you. For the people who cant do major repairs themselves, a broken belt on a 308 can easily exceed $15K these days, and along with a lot of money that many just dont have, they will be without the car for possibly an entire summer. I just dont think its worth leading people down a path with that kind of potential. I feel you people are friends who share a common interest, and as your friend, I cannot, and will not prescribe to that kind of maintainence.

 

Indeed so, but this is the first instance I can recall of a supposedly qualified tech coming out & categorically stating you don't need to change the belts every 5 years.

Maybe he only gives that advice to you knowing that you understand the risks & issues; but if that's what he's telling all his customers then I'm not sure how much of a good idea that is.

....and because I'm in the UK we have a factory spec'd interval of two years here. I don't know of a tech (dealer or independent) who would positively advise a customer to ignore that. Its clear that they all think its a bit nuts but none of them would actively advise a customer to do anything but follow the factory spec.

.....and I still don't understand why you ran the risk!

I.

 

The owner's manual for the 85 308 I used to own had a factory published insert stating the belts should be changed every 2 or 3 years (I forgot which and don't have the car anymore). I don't know if it came with the car or was inserted later. Obviously, the owner(s) of this car didn't give it much heed! 14 year old belts when I got it. It is my understanding Ferrari began recommending short intervals after losing a suit over a TR with broken belt.

Dave