I need help with an issue, and need some answers. I am a step parent, two step daughters, one step son, and an adopted daughter. Two weeks ago I was moving things out of the yard as we have our house up for sale, trying to make it look a little neater. I have a skid loader, or as some call them, a bobcat, although its a Gehl. I have been going to trade it off/sell it, but before I took it away I asked the oldest step daughter if she wanted to use it around the yard at her house, let son-in law work it. A week ago the son in law said something about taking it off a trailer, and my curiousity went up, but I said nothing except to my wife, that I hoped it wasnt going out for others to use. Today I asked the step daughter if they were done with it, "No, were still using it", was the answer. I just happened to drive past thier house to go to the recycling center, and looking in the yard, its not there. I parked and walked through the yard, its really not there. I came home, very upset, and now asked were is my bobcat, and i get the answer, "Its at Dan's house". She knew it was at Dan's house when I asked her earlier, yet said, "we're using it". Now I have to appologise, but when I get mad, and when people answer vaugley, I raise my voice. Why is it at Dan's I yelled, and things went downhill from there. Apparently everyone here thinks this is okay, and I am being a jerk. Daughter in law is mad I yelled in front of grandkids, son in law is mad that I am mad, basically everyone is now mad at me for being upset. Daughter even told the wife after I left that it was at Dan's, and told her mom she thought I would be pissed, yet now says I am a jerk for being mad, dont ask her ask hubby, etc.., she wants to have no questions asked of her about this. So guys, tell me what YOU think, because I am feeling really down here. Am I wrong to be angry? Are they right in feeling its perfectly okay to use my machine this way? Am I being a jerk in not letting everyone use it? I was'nt raised this way, but maybe the world has changed pitch.
If 'Dan' is a relative, it would be Ok *IF* they asked you first, if they didn't, I'd be pissed, too. If 'Dan' is a friend of theirs, then it's not cool at all, because if 'Dan' gets hurt while using it, or if 'Dan' breaks it, guess who foots the bill ? It's the same in my house, I have to spell out EVERYTHING to my step-kids (aged 17-20) and cover every possible loose end. If I say 'unload the dishwasher', they do - they unload it, but don't put anything away, they just stack it on top. So then I say 'put away the dishes', and they do. You guessed it - they put away the dishes, and leave the glasses and silverware in the dishwasher. Stupid games. It sucks.
They definitely should not have let it out of their use without your permission first. Yelling is not a good way to resolve disputes so try talking to the kids in a calm voice. They seem to hear much better that way. BT
One thing I would ask, guys. Please give decent answers as I hope to be able to share this with the family if they will look. And if you all think I am wrong, so be it. Whisky, thats unfortunate. I have never had issues like that here, the family treats me fair and I hope I return the fairness even handledly. I probably should not have screamed like I did while the lil ones where here, but I just don't get upset like that very often. I thought my heart was going to come through my chest driving home, so I guess I had already lost it before I got here. But also, the step daughter was elevating the sound level as I asked questions, so its not entirely one sided on my behalf. I guess I feel like my trust was violated, yet now like I am a jerk for even feeling that way.
I don't think you are being a jerk for feeling violated. I think they violated your trust. I was just saying that any dispute (and especially when dealing with your kids) is best addressed in a calm tone. The family will often shut off the recptor when you are yelling. I would hate to think what would have happened if someone got hurt at their friend's house. You would definitely be in court trying to salvage what is left of your current finances. Lending a shovel is dangerous enough. A piece of heavy equipment is an entirely unacceptable risk to loan to a stranger. BT
Sorry to get off track, but I'm just curious- since Dan was the only benefactor of the arrangement for him to use the machine (he didn't pay for it or anything,) isn't it a use at your own risk kind of deal?
It sounds like they are overstepping their boundaries and are now trying to make you feel guilty for it. Tell them you need it back now and want to pick it up today. It seems to be human nature to take advantage of someones generosity. If you dont want this to happen again, come up with an excuse why you cant do it. Good luck. PS - dont bother showing this to them. Theyll try to make you the bad guy. Just get it back and chalk it up.
You got doinked. By family no less. Someone you love and trust. Who'd of thunk it? Family is always the first to take advantage, figure it "wasn't a problem" and then return whatever is borrowed in non-working condition. Lucky to get it back at all, except they probably figured you'd miss something that big. Did they do wrong? Yup. Do you have every right to be mad? Yup. Will being right in this situation get you anywhere? Nope. EXCEPT TO KNOW THAT YOU WON'T BE LENDING THEM ANYTHING AGAIN. Might let them know it too. dm
Plagiarism is not always a bad thing. Say, for example, if one substitutes Paul's car, '77 308 GTB #21181, where applicable. You were 100% right. OK - You'd feel worse if something happened to the equipment, and MUCH worse if something happened to Dan. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Your blood pressure and decibel range went up for a very good reason. Good faith contract was violated. Just because you took the initiative of loaning, does not mean your act can be duplicated. It was stated you'd be pissed, and is now a proven fact. THOU SHALT NOT LOAN THAT WHICH THOU HAST BORROWED, EVEN IF LOAN WAS OFFERED, NOT REQUESTED, IN GOOD FAITH.
First off this machine, no matter whose possesion it is in, is still yours. Skid loaders are not toys and can kill or injur if the opperator does not know what he/she is doing. If you trusted this piece of machinery to your step-daughter and her husband where the hell do they get off loaning it out without your permission? Who pays if something goes wrong, or worse yet if someone gets hurt on this machine? Don't let them poo-poo these questions. It has been my experience that those who get hurt look to point the finger at everyone else. Figure if your name is on the title, and you have pockets you're going to have to defend yourself against a lawsuit. Sorry that there is disharmony in your household...but this is common sense...if someone loans you something you DON'T lend it again without the owners knowledge and permission. P.S. don't let them hold on to the 308 while you sell your house.
One of my friends said "Somethimes it's better to beg for forgiveness than ask for permission". In my line of thought that's wrong. If she knew you would be mad, she planned it out and told people not to tell you. I would go to Dan's house right now and scoop it up.
Hey Paul, Sounds like you're more upset then you need to be. Don't get worked up over this, as it just isn't worth it. I think your step daughter let you down and she owes you an apology for lending something that doesn't belong to her. Could it be that they owed Dan a favor? In any event, she or your son-in -law should have asked you if it was ok. I suggest you talk to them and explain that you want to be there for them, but you don't want to take on risks associated with lending things, such as injury, damage, failure to return, etc. I also think you should talk to them about raising your voice. You can escalate a situation just by creating this tension and it's a waste of time..... Apologize, but make your position clear. Good luck .............. just my opinion
Well, I got it back. It looks like its been in mud up to the axles, but otherwise looks okay. I'll check it over tomorrow and try cleaning it as best I can, and then its off to the tractor place. I am done offering things to anyone, borrowing things, or ever asking anyone to help me. I'll find a way to do it all by myself somehow, or hire it done by people I don't know and don't owe anything to. I think because I blew up, yelled and screamed, that I will forever be wrong. No amount of time will ever bring appology from anyone other than me. I walk out in the garage and look at the Ferrari's, and feel like kicking them off the jackstands. I am not rich, most everything I own came to me broken, and I fixed it. I like things that way, because I feel I end up with machines that I can trust, and they cost me less to own by using my own labor. But if I actually charged myself labor it would far exceed what the item was worth. With a Ferrari I get satisfaction from working on it, but the skidloader was really no different. I got the skid loader the same way. I spent the better of two months removing the engine, overhauling it, and replacing it, and it was hard filthy work. I spent another two days and a $$grand rebuilding the boom and all the pins and bushings. I spent two days and over $500 replacing the tires (by hand), sandblasting and painting the wheels. I tried to both make it look decent, and work reliably. How that works into rebuilding some guys mud driveway for over a week and lying to me about it is beyond me. Now give it back to me all filthy because I am now a jerk? Use the grandkids as a pawn to threaten with, that you either shut up, or you'll never see them again? And it was instant to man, first thing I heard almost. Shut up or your done! Well, I didnt shut up. I should borrow thier truck, let a buddy use it to go fourwheeling behind thier back, Lie when they ask about it, and bring it back filthy. Then when they freak out, remind them that thier precious truck still works and nobody wrecked it. I have actually heard this yesterday, that "no body hurt your precious bobcat", and "I guess no good deed goes unpunished". Basically saying I have no rights to either ask where its at, or how its being used. I guess I didnt even have the right to ask when I might get it back. Is that why Ferrari's get keyed? By people who look at it as "your precious car", without taking one second to imagine all the hundreds of hours of work you may have put into it? Just key it down both sides because "YOUR AN ***WHOLE". I appologise for venting here, but I appreciate your responses. I doubt anyone else will read any of this, its probably all moot, but at least I know im not totally crazy. Thanks a lot guys, I appreciate it.
I agree with everything bu tthe last sentence. You don't need to let them know that they won't be borrowing anything from you ever again (or at least for a long while), don't say anything, but just remember that the next time the answer is 'sorry'. There are soooooooooo many things I'd LOVE to say to people, but they are best left unsaid.
'Use at your own risk kind of deal'. Sure, until someone gets hurt, then it's their insurance company coming after you because you were not CERTIFIED to work on that piece of heavy machinery, you 'fixed it wrong', you didn't train them in the proper use, they didn't wear a helmet, etc. Listen, I don't like it any more than anyone else, but we are living in a CYA/sue-sue-sue society, if you don't watch your own behind, somebody else MIGHT just hand it to you.
It's issues like this that tend to build up between people and can factor into issues later on. They asked you to borrow it, and you said OK. Fine. But because it was really for "Dan" to use, they weren't being honest with you. My question to you would be, why would they need to deceive you? If they had asked you whether a friend of theirs could borrow it for some work, would you have allowed it? And is there any history there between yourself and the kids regarding your things? For Dan to then return it without cleaning it is completely wrong. So, I would say that maybe when you have your next big family powwow, take the lead by apologizing for yelling in front of everyone. BUT, from here on there's no more lying. And there's no more borrowing. And tell them that Dan has a week to make your tractor spic-'n-span. Or else they can do it.
Well, tried starting it today, took a lot of cranking. Runs like crap banging and knocking, no power. I found a broken #1 injector fuel line. Runs on three cylinders. Diesel fuel all over the belly, wipe marks from a rag on the side where its leaking. How many days was it ran like that? I'll never know. I think if I can get a line it will probably be okay, but this is the kind of garbage that drives me almost insane. I will never, as long as I live, ever borrow anything to anybody for any reason. The line may simply have broken from hours of fatigue. It may also have broken simply from some yahoo beating the dickens out of it. Its the time interval between it breaking and leaving it in my yard that I question, as it wouldnt do it any good to keep working it that way. Of course I know that "it ran okay when I dropped it off". Thanks a lot guys, I was really starting to think I just wasnt an open and outgoing person, and had issues with materialism. Sad to see all of you been there before.
Now that's making my blood pressure go up. Take pictures if you can. Keep tabs on how much it costs to get back to condition it was in before it was used by a third party without your permission. When someone broaches the subject, say in a low whisper [very effective, as it forces people to listen] for all to hear, just how much damage was caused. After all...
I would just relax, life is short and just be thankful for your health - that's what really matters. Just tell then you would appreciate to get your bobcat back soon and be thankful that it can help others.
While it is true, life is short, there is another side. People will do to ya what you let them, no more or less. You cannot get walked on if you don't lay down, PERIOD. If the behavior that is offending isn't called to task in some manner, it will be repeated. The trick is to be firm, but diplomatically forcefull. If the people that are around percieve that this type of behavior is acceptable, by virtue of a lack of negative response, the pattern is set, and the same type of thing will surely occur in the future. JMO
I once let my friends borrow a trailer. They jack-knifed it, and bent the hitch thingie. As a coincidence, they brought it back late at night. I repaired it, said nothing. When they asked for it again, I said "Nope, it's broken, can't figure out how that **** happened". They came kinda clean saying "ooh maybe it's xxxxxx, when he backed it up ...". Needless to say, they haven't asked to borrow it again. But it was just a trailer, cost me a whopping 50$ to fix ... not a "bobcat". Lesson learned. There are very few people I let borrow my stuff ... I definitely wouldn't have screamed because it's just not me, but I'd have asked to get it back within the day (when I say this, it's that I'm extremely upset!), done an overhaul, and send them the repair bill with a little "you're used to sharing ... share the repair bill with your friends". I mean ... not even asking is just plain rude. I don't care if rude people don't like me, I don't like them anyways! LOL. Just don't feel guilty. They should.
My experience with people is that most of them dont treat your posessions as carefully as you do. If they did, then they would tend to have things too and you could reciprocally borrow things. But it usually doesn't work that way and people borrow things, abuse them, then return them broken. I think you are right to be upset about this and it would make me more upset that they don't even see what they did wrong. If it came back damaged, I would go off the handle. I would demand that it be fixed. I remember a few years back my snowblower was broken and during a big storm I borrowed the blower of the folks across the street. Well, I broke it. It was a POS anyway but it broke while in my care and I took it back and said I'd fix it. They said no, but I insisted. I called a repair guy who came and picked it up the next day and I asked him to please expedite fixing whatever had gone wrong and to bill me. Thats what he did, and they were almost apologetic that their POS blower broke on me. but I knew the risks going in and *I* was the apologetic one since whatever shape it was in, it worked for him and I was the one that broke it. It would be unconscionable to return your loader dirty and damaged. You should demand that they pay to fix it. Thats just common decency. But I will say this too. it sounds like there are other issues at play here for them to have this sort of reaction that they will 'take away' the grandkids. Theres gotta be past issues or problems for it to erupt into this level of tit-for-tat over a simple borrow-betray-break scenario. But even if so, are you gonna let them blackmail your ability to see your kids over a loader? You would not be the idiotic one in that case, they would be. Forever explaining to their kids that they don't see grandpa because mom and dad borrowed his loader and deceitfully gave it to someoen else who then broke it. Kid will wake up some day and say "ummm, so mom, it kinda sounds like you screwed over grandpa"
I guess I have vented enough. I really just wanted to see how some of you guys thought and I got it. I should have my head examined for thinking I would have been treated any differently, but what the heck. A close neighbor has his own skid loader, and I presented the problem to him. I didnt name names, just said family member. I asked him if I was crazy for feeling like I did, and he just looked at me like I was nuts for asking. He got mad and said if anyone did that to him they better stay out of his way. But he seen who backed it up the driveway, and he sees how filthy it is, and he sees I have a problem with it so I can only guess he knows whats going on.
In todays world, it is very important to express your feelings. This will help to avoid stress caused by buried emotins. It would be a good move to have a talk with the fellow that abused your equipment, explaining to him just how betrayed the situation made you feel. This will probably catch him a bit off gaurd, and will make the next phase a bit easier to introduce. Place a well motivated boot to his tiny nutsack, and you will instantly feel a release of your anxiety.
