Another broken timing belt thread

original hoses don't use springs since they are preformed at manufacturing, on my personal experience, just "universal" aplication hoses that they sell at some shops use those springs,ferrari hoses don't use springs(as FAR AS I KNOW) ONCE a 1959 fiat 1100 tv of a costumer had one of those hoses and the spring desintegrated and DESTROYED the impeler, thank god there is a guy here who rebuilt it(even made the impeler) and charged $55!!! after that we got a new old stock water pump for $120 but since the rebuilt one worked fine, we keept the original as a spare for later on


i don't think the water pump can create enough vacumm to suck in the hoses since as you rev up the engine it is pushing more water back to where it took it from initially so don't worry lad,i've seen them explode from pressure but never suck in from reving them

 

Ok, cool. But i have seen many many times the bottom hose suck closed on high performance engines at high rpm. Thats why you should have the spring in there to prevent it happening to prevent engine damage. I havent seen any ferrari's do it,thats why i was curious. But it does happen.

 

never seen it before, if the hose is in good shape it shouldn't do it i think

well i learned something new today, not even on race car i have seen hoses with springs

 

Larry and Carl...

Thanks for that. I know how much I enjoy fixing these cars, and the satisfaction an owner and hobby mechanic gets when he fixes his own car is a life experience everyone should have at least once.

Of course, a big barrel like this has lots of bad apples. But it's easy to pick them out.

 

I wasnt going to post anymore to this thread, but I think I need to say a few things.

First of all, this is a BELT discussion, and basically nothing else to do with servicing the rest of the car. If I made some fatal mistake in not spelling out EXACTLY what I was trying to say, thanks for telling me to go jerk off.

Second, I didnt attack anyone on this site as being a thief or anything else. But there are plenty of them out there in the world, and we all know it. For all the freakin whining everyone does trying to drive 100K miles and go 20 years on timing belts, I THOUGHT this thread was about THAT, and ONLY that. I thought it was about the ENGINE, not waxing and polishing and brake jobs and taking two full days to play with simple points distributors. But woe is me, I PO a few long time wrenches who first off want us all to replace our belt (a good thing), but then want to go back to scaring everyone about how long it will take and how much labor it will cost (a bad thing).

You all have had a good laugh at me, ha ha, well I can take it. I been around "car" mechanics all my life, and its always been a big urinating contest. Try working around aircraft. No contest, as everything is by the book, overseen by Feds, no arguments. And in that context, I feel those of you smart guys who think I should go "jerk off" should read the time service manual for a 308 GT4. It was written by Ferrari and I would take thier word over anyone elses in this matter as to how long a particular job should take. Its funny too, as I never seen or heard of it until this morning, and accidently came across it on a GT4 site.

To wit:

Operation code 06.1.0.02.2 Engine- Check and adjust engine in car (includes: adjust valve clearance, camshaft, ignition timing and carburetors. Retorque head) Camshaft and Ignition timing and carb adjustments? Wow, thats a lot of work.

And the time allowed? 10.8 hours. Thats 10.8 hours Timing belts not listed? Uhmmm, the belts would have to be removed to adjust valve timing.
10.8 hours? Boy, you guys better take me out and shoot me for being .8 hours off on my estimate.

If you only want to replace the timing belts? Operation code 06.1.2.18.6 allows you 4.6 hours. 4.6 hours!!! With AC (op code 06.1.2.18.7) they will allow you 6.1 hours. Uhhh roger that, 6.1 hours.

And a full service at 30K on the entire car? Are you sitting down? 27 hours. How many of you get a full car service including the engine and belts for $3300 labor @ $125 per hour??? Better get that list out Brian, you may have a lot of customers coming over. You are willing to do your FULL list of work you posted for 27 hours chargeable hours labor arent you?? We can supply our own parts can't we?

Oh and by the way, Ferrari operation code 06.8.1.13.3 regards the overhaul of a distributor on the bench and includes a bench test (which is on a machine) and they allow you 1.3 hours. This is NOT included in servicing the CAR at 30K, as only adjusting dwell and ignition timing is included. Operation code 06.8.1.13.2 : Check and adjust dwell and ignition timing (two distributor type engine) (also applies to electronic ignition distributor) .3 hours.

Now I do realise these cars are 30 years old, and some of these times may be hard to realise, and some parts are no longer available. But if you want to go slamming me when you know damned well what I meant, I can slam back. I've certainly spent all day trying to fix some stupid thing and I didnt charge labor for it either, so we both understand each other on that deal. Try rebuilding a 50 year old bendix magneto for a old Continental 145 HP airplane engine, so some old guy can fly his old airplane. same thing. Lets all try to be a little more gentlemanly about this stuff and keep it fun, okay?

Seriously Brian, I don't think anyone would expect that level of work for 27 hours labor. But you didnt need to tell me to go jerk off either.

 

*sigh*

another dead car sitting around taking up valuable space.......

 

when under the hood of a ferrari, you either enter the realm with serious knowledge or chance. that's what i learned after a few hours, to be on the conservative side, toiling with the dxxx belts.

"warning," the gt4 workshop manual says:

"to prevent any belt damage during the assembly, carefully avoid to cause any offsetting of the belts."

you can order the workshop manual from QV London <email: [email protected]>-- of course, i got mine after offsetting the belts during assembly - the motor did not sound right when i twisted the key.

ouch!

 

Hey Rolo, did your clear coolant hoses look anything like this: http://www.newageindustries.com/datasheet.asp?PN=3500686&FAM=ConvolutedTubing

 

i couldn't see pictures in there, but according to specs they migth work

max pressure is 70
max temp is 500 so the migth do the job

 

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I'm running the stronger 1.1 bar radiator cap, but even that is just a bit less than 16psi...far below the limits of the clear hose above.

Making coolant hoses opaque serves no purpose; they should be transparent to see air bubbles (time to bleed cooling system) or rust/debris (early warning of a radiator core failing).

 

even parts from the impeler on the water pump like what happened on my brothers land rover LOL

i got this tip from Mclaren cars, from one of there technicians,because when they were developing the F1 they had overheating problems so they swapped all hoses to clear ones and the found out where was the problem , then they fixed it and went back to black silicone hoses

 

Clever.

 

I like the idea of clear hoses, really. I want some. I think I'm the one that started making a big deal about them in this thread!

But I'll bet a lot of us won't like what's to be seen if they're installed.........
Who's noticed that if you drain coolant from a car it's always got junk in it? Lord help us if it's got an iron block/heads! The sites that hype inline coolant filters are full of horror stories about what's found (I think No Doubt linked to some of these). Someone's gonna have to install some of these and scare the rest of the community!

 

by using clear hoses you also have to use a coolant of a ligth color,rigth now i'm using the BMW one because it's cheap, it HAS to be good since it's OME and works on almost any type of system

 

You are using clear BMW cooling system hoses do you mean?

 

the coolant,if i switch to clear hoses i need to swicth to a ligther color coolant, instead of the DARK blue one from BMW