360 Handling Issue . . . | FerrariChat
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360 Handling Issue . . .

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by 3omar, Mar 18, 2006.

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  1. 3omar

    3omar Formula Junior
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    Omar
    #1 3omar, Mar 18, 2006
    I am new to the 360 experience (having been a Porsche owner before), but since I got my car last week (following 4 new tires, brake pads, disks and a 4-wheel alignment at the dealer), I have been noticing a handling trait that I can’t quite explain:

    On the highway, at any speed from 90 km/hr to 150 km/hr, the car would be tracking straight, very stable and solid, then I would feel it slowly going slightly to one side (sometimes to the left, sometimes to the right, no rule). The feeling is like being in an SUV or some other high vehicle and then getting a sudden gust of cross wind.

    Of course, there is never any cross wind when the 360 does this, nor would I expect a Ferrari (being low and wide) to be susceptible to cross winds to begin with. I am just trying to describe the movement so you guys can understand what it “feels” like.

    Mind you, I am not talking about any sudden lurch sideways or anything, it is very subtle, yet nevertheless requires a steering wheel adjustment. I am running standard wheels and brand new P-Zeros all around.

    It doesn’t happen continuously, I would say once every 3 or 4 minutes during a highway drive. As far as I can observe, it is not linked to any irregularities on the road, it happens both during smooth and rough sections, it is not linked to acceleration or braking and it happens in all lanes (so it is not linked to road inclination).

    The dealer has done a full inspection and says the car is perfect.

    Any ideas?
     
  2. ryalex

    ryalex Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #2 ryalex, Mar 18, 2006
    I don't have a 360, but the phenomenon you're describing sounds like the car is tracking the subtle curves in the pavement.
     
  3. brim

    brim Guest

    Dec 20, 2004
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    #3 brim, Mar 18, 2006
    Omar, I can't speak for anyone else on FChat but there is a whole group of 360 owners where I live that have experienced the sensation you have described, myself included.

    I found it occurred at speeds 200kmh+. The car felt light, unstable, and floated.
     
  4. Turb0flat4

    Turb0flat4 Formula 3

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    #4 Turb0flat4, Mar 18, 2006
    Sounds like tramlining to me (technical name for the effect described by ryalex). Normal on high performance tires with low profiles.
     
  5. DGS

    DGS Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #5 DGS, Mar 18, 2006
    Both my 328 (S03s) and EVO (A046s) do the same thing.

    It's when you get a really precise steering car with gobs of road feel that you find out just how bad your public roads really are. :p

    In Massachusetts, it sometimes felt like they hadn't removed all the horses before paving the horse trails. :D

    As to why you never got this in the P-car: I've never had the pleasure(?) of driving a car with the engine tacked on the back as an afterthought (;)), but I did notice, when test-driving an '88 M3, a '97 M3, and a '99 A4, that some german cars don't have the road feel I got used to from italian machines.
     
  6. cavlino

    cavlino Formula 3

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    #6 cavlino, Mar 18, 2006
    I have to agree with all the above, the Ferrari is a very interactive experiance and that is what you are feeling. I also have a 1995 993 and since it has a fully upgraded suspension it also now provides me with that extra connection with the imperfect road surface :)
     
  7. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    #7 ferrarifixer, Mar 18, 2006
    Also, check the wheel alignment is to specs.

    It INFURIATES me how most mass market wheel aligners set cars to have a bit too much toe out, or not enough toe in. (They sell more tyres this way)

    Get a high quality wheel alignment shop... one that will demonstrate/calibrate/zero their machine in front of you if you ask, to do a full 4 wheel alignment.

    360's do NOT wander around the road when travelling in a straight line, if the road is normal and the car is set correctly in all regards.

    Lowering the car will increase tendency to wander a little bit, but not badly, also tyre pressures only need to be 3 or 4 lbs below and they'll feel soggy too.
     
  8. thibaut

    thibaut Formula Junior

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    #8 thibaut, Mar 19, 2006
    Check tire pressure ... even out of tire shop, I've had nasty surptise with the air they may have put in.
     
  9. 3omar

    3omar Formula Junior
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    #9 3omar, Mar 19, 2006
    What's a good tire pressure compromise for the P-Zeros I have? (Front/rear)

    The numbers on the car are for Bridgestones, not Pirellis.

    I currently have 30 psi cold all round.
     
  10. thibaut

    thibaut Formula Junior

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    #10 thibaut, Mar 19, 2006
    this info should be in the owner's manual
     
  11. nt6d

    nt6d Formula Junior

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    #11 nt6d, Mar 19, 2006
    32/29 PSI
     
  12. P3P4

    P3P4 Rookie

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    #12 P3P4, Mar 19, 2006
    A few things to consider.

    The car should not wander but it will follow a bad road surface as described by others, if you think that is not the issue you can then re0check the car.

    4 wheel alignment, was the ride height set first, its important on this car.
    Then where the rear wheels aligned before the front again important, most wander is cuased by rear issues on cars with 4 wheel independant suspension.
    Then what settings were used, remeber Ferrari does not publish the figures to compnays like Hunter, Bear, Sun etc.
    Check that the figures it was set to are the ones recommend by Ferrari SpA.
    Then do this before those new tires start to wear.
    Once the tire find a grove they will still cause a pull even with correct set up.
     
  13. pistole

    pistole Formula Junior

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    #13 pistole, Mar 19, 2006
    tramlining is one thing.

    wandering about is another.
     
  14. zorzos

    zorzos Karting

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    #14 zorzos, Mar 20, 2006
    When i bought my car i had similar questions about the handling of the car, but not in 150 km or less, the car is feeling that is floating at very high speeds ( 240 km and above ), after many hours of driving i have realise that the steering is very sensitive, and the roads are never good enough for our cars....I have pirelli's too, but i don't thing that 32 psi in front is good, i use 30 psi front and 29 psi back. So keep your hands on the steering wheel all the times when you are running !
     
  15. 3omar

    3omar Formula Junior
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    #15 3omar, Mar 20, 2006
    Well, the 4-wheel alignment was done by the dealer and repeated again 2 days later after that wandering trait was discovered together with inspecion of the suspension and ride height.

    Although I have not spoken to the technicians themselves following the alignments, I assume that they have used Ferrari parameters when doing the alignments. Is that too naive of me to expect?
     
  16. nt6d

    nt6d Formula Junior

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    #16 nt6d, May 12, 2006
    omar,

    Any updates? Did you get the problem all fixed?

    Chris
     
  17. 3omar

    3omar Formula Junior
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    #17 3omar, May 13, 2006
    Thanks for asking.

    Yes, finally. After the dealer tried out different things, it turned out that one of the two rear brand new P-Zeros that the dealer had put on the car had a manufacturing defect. Pirelli changed both tires under warranty and the car is now perfect.

    While this is obviously a very strange thing, it is actually the best possible outcome in terms of nothing being wrong with the car itself.
     
  18. nt6d

    nt6d Formula Junior

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    #18 nt6d, May 14, 2006
    Thanks for the update.
    Glad to hear the problem is solved - a very interesting outcome thou.
    Cheers,
     
  19. Frari

    Frari Formula 3

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    #19 Frari, May 14, 2006
    I agree with ferrari fixer, my 360 used to be very twitchy or tram tracky on the highway at higher speeds. The steering is very precise, I used to own a turbo 911 and I found it most unsettling. I re-alligned the 360 and it improved greatly. I would use a specialist alligner and explain your problem so they fully understand and if they are worth their salt they bwill solve your problem. Lower profile tyres and wider tyres as the others say can cause the tram trcking but not usually wandering.
     

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