I know there are some people on this chatroom who are dreamers, posting things about cars they don't really own etc.. For me, the bottom line is that I set a deadline for myself of today to make my final decision on 1 of two vehicles. (It's been a long hard road that started with a 575M and a lot of mind changing). It's a classic 360 coupe vs 430 coupe question. There is a beautiful black/black 2003 360 F1 with 6k mileage and eligable for power cube (which I would definitely opt for). I am considering that one or a 430 that is at Ferrari LI (Gianni). Gianni and I made a deal that today is "Decision Day" and I must give him the final yea or nea today. The 2005 430 is really set up well, Red / Black F1 with the carbo brakes and lots of other options. The 360 is set up well also (F1, Tubi, Rims, etc.). The cars are going to cost $240k or $160k (with cube). It's a big difference and thus I need to really decide if it's worth the extra $80k for the 430. I have no clue how to get on an ordering list - up here in Vancouver they won't even take more names (so they say) until next year. However if anyone knows of a dealer in the states where I could order one for 2 years from now (as an example) that would be very interesting. I have driven an older 360 with the F1 and it's tranny was slow and notchy. Was the 360 F1 improved much over the years so that this 2003 would have a better operation? The fear I have is that I'll bring in this 430 and then in a couple years the market will be flooded with them and I'll take a big bath (perhaps $70k in 3 years?). We'll probably put perhaps 3000 miles a year on it, realistically although my wife thinks it may be more...) Please help me make the right decision today...
If your worried about the depreciation, then skip the F430 and get the 360. Both will drop in value with time and mileage, but the 360 has already taken the bigger hit in depreciation. I am currently selling my '00 360 F1 and my F430 is scheduled for delivery in August. I understand these cars are not investments, they are depreciating assets. Most things in life that I enjoy cost money. I feel it's worth the money to enjoy my Ferrari's and Lamborghini's.
I completely understand your point and I wholeheartedly agree. However TVM still has it's place in my thoughts. Yes I can go either way and not have it really affect me but I think the opinions offered by others who have gone through the same thing are very valuable. How long ago did you order your 430? also keep in mind that you're not paying $30k over (which is what I must do to get it for this summer)
If you actually drive your cars, like I do, then it's no question go for the 430. You don't care about depreciation and stuff like that; you're buying the car for the pure 'blast factor'. And the 430 definitely has a bunch more blast! To me, if the 80K difference is big factor in the decision, then I wouldn't buy a Ferrari at all. I'd never recommend anybody strain their finances on a car purchase, whatever it might be (unless you find a low mileage Enzo for about 400K, that is!) But then you'd just buy it for immediate resale.
Unfortunately, it seems people are not getting my point or my question. Neither vehicle will strain me financially - but I am not a spendthrift sort of person. Please don't say things like "if you can't afford it then.." because that is not the question here. No matter how much money you have (unless you inherited it), there will always be the question of VALUE. I am a self made person, I never want to be that sort of guy who goes and throws around money like it's going out of style to make themself feel or look big. It's just not necessary for me. I just want another toy for my wife and I to play with. Nothing more or less. Which one will give more enjoyment? Which one delivers better value? Is there much of a difference between an early or late 360 ? These are important questions for me. I'm one of those wacked out philanthropic kind of people. If I spend the extra $80k I know I won't give as much this year. Sorry for the ramble but I do hope this will clarify my question.
HAD A 360 AND TRADED IT ON A 2005 F430-THERE IS A WORLD OF DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO CARS-THE F430 FEELS AND DRIVES MORE LIKE A RACE CAR THAN MY 360-THE 360 WAS A GREAT CAR.HARD DECISION FOR YOU-$ TALK-EITHER WAY YOU CAN'T GO TO WRONG-BEST OF LUCK VAN
Go with the 430. Look at the 355-348 depretiation rates. The 348 continued depretiating even when the 355 values started to drop. The 430 has one thing going for it right now. Cars have started to hit the limit of the tires. The 430 is much more torquey than the 360. If you buy a 360 you will probably like it but you will always feel like you settled. On top of that if the 360 depreciates, which it likely will, you will feel even worse. In the 430 at least while you own it you will enjoy every minute.
Drive both. Then ask, which would you rather drive? If it's the 360, you're done. If it's the 430, ask yourself if it's worth the extra 80K. IMO when prices bottom out the diff between a 360 and 430 will likely be 30K (similar to price diff between a TR and a 512TR), so if you keep the car long term you will likely "lose" an extra 50K of depreciation on the 430. Is the extra enjoyment of the 430 worth it. personal decision.. If money is no object, or only a small part of the decision, most would take the 430. For me, spending my own money, and with the deal you have specified, I would take the 360, and buy a 456 with the left over 80K.
'Value' is very hard to measure. And the returns diminish rapidly as you go up in performance. Spend 1M plus on an Enzo, and you might think you got ripped off, because the performance is definitely not 3 times the F430, but you definitely paid 3 times as much! But if you want that extra little bit, you have to pay for it. It's pretty much a fact that the F430 outperforms the 360. For me, I prefer to have the latest in technology, therefore the 80K is irrelevant. As long as the asking price is in-line with the market, how can you get ripped off?
The F430 is light years beyond the 360- everything about the F430 is improved. Plus, the F430 will hold its value for much longer than the 360. F430 for sure. No way you can/should pass on it.
I was in the same spot as you a few months ago and faced with the same decision. I chose the 430. I knew if I bought the 360, I would have continued dreaming about the 430 until it was in my garage. I didn't want to take a bath twice so I am only taking one. LOL
You bring up a very good question. Here is my two cents... First let me ask, What kind of driving do you and your wife like? How do you see yourself using this car? There are of course plenty of other questions, but I hope you get where I am trying to go with this. I like you am trying to decide between two Ferraris, in my case between a CS and the other the F430 Coupe. For me it is about several issues. One being F1 vs Manual. And the others like the questions I asked you and your wife. I will say that like you I do not like the idea of not getting value for my dollar. But as several people have said value for your dollar is a personal thing. If you are looking for a sportscar that will give you everything and that being you want to track your car or at least play on the track a little and a great road car. The F430 will be the car you will fall in love with. The 360 is a great car and you would be hard pressed not to be driving it around your area or on trips and not love it. The 360 takes a little more work in that you need to be in the power band for you to really get the rush of acceleration. That is not to say that if you don't you will be slow. You are still driving a sportscar that is in the top 5% of cars on the road in acceleration. So there are not too many cars on the street in everyday driving that you won't be faster than to most speeds even if you drive it casually. From what I have gathered and seen the F1 in the F430 is much better and smoother than in the 360. The only exception is the CS. The CS shifts more aggressively but people that like a real track feel love it. Like you I drove a F1 360 and found it to be not to my taste. I like the traditions gated shifter and I like the feeling it gives me when driving. On the street I am not interested in being 1/100 faster in my shifts or even more. On the street I like the way it feels to be out on a country road driving and enjoying whether I am on a favorite road or on a drive with my wife to explore new places. Length of ownership and miles of pleasure make the 80K depreciation acceptable. IMHO. Sorry if I got too long winded. Best of Luck
These guys are making some good points. Just remember, make this decision based upon your gut instinct...it's your decision. That being said, choose the 430
In response to how this car would be used, I have a very small collection of cars that are important to me (meaning not her). My wife hates them because I won't let her drive them, and the few times we do drive them there is often a problem that sort of kills the fun. I let a car go last year in a trade for a 997 with tiptronic for her. She absolutely loves it. She's taken it to the track twice so far and does intend to go about 2x per year. I thought I'd get something else that we could both enjoy, meaning a Ferrari with an F1 (her clutch abilities are just not that great and she is not willing to learn). The scary part for me is that she WILL drive this Ferrari a couple times each month. She'll take it to the Gym, to various errand running and such. This means she WILL scratch and ding it - guaranteed. For me, I'll just drive it every once in a while and use it as my track car for the few days each ear that we actually go. This way I can blow her doors off (very important) at the track. It will not be a garage queen. I already have a couple of those and she (and I) won't allow another. We now have a bigger garage and I can fit 2 more cars in it. However one slot is sort of spoken for already with something else.
Just to throw a spanner in the works.... You should be able to pick up a very nice Challenge Stradale for around 180-190 that has low miles, is still in warranty. Why the CS ? * It splits the cost between your two models * It splits the performance offered by the two models, but decidedly closer to F430 performance than 360. * It's available at around original MSRP. Although you're not getting it at a discount, you're not paying a huge premium either. * FUN TO DRIVE. No recent Ferrari offers the sheer pleasure of driving that the Stradale does. * The best iteration of the F1. Shifts are smooth and efficient pottering around downtown or in traffic, or BAM BAM BAM! if you'd like to pretend to be Schumi. I didn't think I'd buy a Stradale. I considered it, thought better of it, but then went out for a test drive. The SMILES you get driving this beast come from deep within, you can feel some neanderthal grunting and bashing sticks on rocks in approval. Sure, this isn't the car to buy if you were going to be using it primarily for commuting, but you mentioned FUN -- the Stradale offers it by the bucketful and the VFM-meter is OFF the scale! OH, and just one more personal observation if I may. Whenever I've made decisions with a deadline, even a self-imposed deadline, I've often regretted the decision. Sometimes no decision is better -- I'd personally wait until a car came along that offered the things you want, at the price you'd like to pay, where the YES!-factor is immediately apparent. But that's just me. Good luck with whatever car you decide to go with!!
You're right on the CS - but it's quite loud inside don't you find? I have spent time in one but not much. It is very beautiful on the interior, really amazing but it was so loud I was surprised (I wanted to put on a helmet). I have never been in or driven one on the regular road so I don't know the ride quality for driving around town - I'd love to hear input on that?
I was in the same situation 5 months ago and ended up getting a 430. I could not be happier with the decision and feel the money was very well spent. Have you also considered the 360 challenge stradale? That would fit somewhere between the 360 and 430 and may be a good choice especially if you like going to the track. In terms of depreciation, the stradale will probably hold it's value pretty well.
Josh, I say get the 430, and talk to Gianni to get on the list for another coupe/spider down the road. Once you pay over MSRP, you shoud never have to again. Only obstacle i can see for this is F-dealers can only sell NEW cars within 150 miles radius, if you can get around that, I think this is the way to go.
What time is you decision due? Please post your decision as well, and if it involves a purchase post pics.... For what it's worth, I wouldn't rush into anything... a couple days ago you were asking about a 512TR, today its 360/430, and in the last post perhaps a CS is in the mix... If you're not sure what you want, no harm in waiting to figure it out. 360's and 430's not particularly rare. seems like the deadline is self imposed. just my 0.02...
From what you have added. I would say the F430 is going to bring you the most joy of ownership. You may find your wife liking so much that she drives it more. For you it will be the kind of car you will look for times and places to drive it. I agree with what some one said here. Do not make a rushed decission. It is better to find the car for you than it is to rush to get something. From what I have seen from the people here that currently own a F430. They love it. I have driven one and I have to say it is fantastic. Ever time I have decided to buy a new Ferrari (to me that is). I always say "oh I will only use it a little". The current car available from Ferrari are so good and such a pleasure to drive that you find yourself driving them more. Which IMHO is why one should buy a sportscar (at least a newer one vs a classic). Best of Luck.
Yes, it's louder than the 360, but about the same as an F430. It sounds better than both -- a lot better than the 360, a little better than the F430. The F430 sounds great at low revs -- nice and "burbly". The CS when you start building revs up sounds intoxicating. The CS does allow a lot of rock-chips hitting wheel well noise into the cabin -- seemingly everything larger than 15 microns manages to hit the wheel wells. This noise is prevalent driving around neighborhoods at slow speeds, but doesn't seem to be a problem once on the main streets and highways. As I say, if you were driving this for long periods, on boring drives, this isn't a good choice, but for FUN, or the track, it's definitely worth considering. Ride quality is perfectly acceptable -- sure, you don't want to hit speed bumps at *any* kind of speed, but it's not like driving a Merc, that's for sure. It feels like you're driving a taut, capable, powerful sports car, and most of all it FEELS like you're driving a FERRARI every minute you're in it. The 360 and F430 coddle you with comfort; you can tootle around easily and use it as a daily-driver no problem. Given the choice between an F430/360 and a CS for a drive down I-5 for 200miles and back, I'd take the F430/360 in a heartbeat. But for the car that BEGS you to find some twisties, take the long way home, or blow off work and go to the track, the Stradale does this in SPADES. In the Challenge Stradale, there is no "Auto" button. There IS a "Launch Control" button. That says it all right there....
Every Ferrari V8 model in modern times has had serious teething problems in its first 2 yrs of production. Do you really want to gamble $80K that the 430 has it right the first time out? Or do you plan on getting a 2007/8 model? Lou
I think my 512 question was very relevant on the other post. I finally drove a 512 and had questions relating to it. I'd love to add one to my garage but I probably never will. If I did, for me it would be better to wait another year until they are 15 years old -then they can be imported into Canada (Canadian rules). It would be inappropriate for my current need regardless. I have certainly jumped from a 575M that is what I originally had my eye on to this 360/575 question. The deadline is entirely self-imposed because if I don't do this to myself I will miss the summer season. Summer in Vancouver is short but sweet. Waiting to make a decision on the 430 won't help me b/c I already found the perfect one, from a dealer that I already know and trust. I don't suspect that prices will decline in the next few months. The 360 is also perfectly set up, sure maybe prices will drop a bit in the next few months on the 360 but it's not worth missing the summer. From my experience and taste the 360 looks best in black while the 430 looks best in red. It has to do with the headlights and taillights smoothing better on the 360 in Black. My self imposed deadline of today was just extended until tomorrow by Gianni (he needed another day to get something for me). I'll definitely post pictures etc.. of whatever ends up finally filling the slot. Please forgive my flim-flamming but I get quite excited when it comes to cars and this causes me to act like a 5 year old (which can be a good thing).
Not implying there is anything wrong with considering multiple different cars... do it all the time myself. was just suggesting to wait until you are ready. if that's today or tomorrow great!
