MARCO ANDRETTI - DANICA PATRICK

If we follow your logic, then ALL of the drivers that finsihed behind Danica are even worse than her, also wanna bes, and only the drivers that finished 1-7 at Indy are good. We will not take into account consistent speed for 500 miles, pitting under a green, running a second rate chassis, etc. Nor we will take into account that unlike 28 or so of the other 33 drivers in the 2005 500, she actually led the race. None of this is significant. Nor is it significant that most drivers do not win their first race until competing in about 35+ events, and she is not at that number yet. Doesn't matter how many cars former F1 world champions, or other USA open wheel champions for that matter, wrecked before winning their first race, yet Danica has been pretty good on equipment.

All righty then, interesting logic you use.

Doesn't work.

 

Another thought...

Anyone see how well Katherine Legge is doing in CART? I mean everyone was going on and on about how good she was in Atlantics last year, and how she was better than Danica. Hmm... seems to me that Miss Legge has suddenly discovered the big leagues to be a bit tougher than it seemed.

 

Ron,

My logic is not that only a bad driver finishes 8th and anyone worse than 8th must therefore be worse. I never said that, you put those words in my mouth and ran with that (wrong) assumption.

My thoughts on Danica are very simple

1) She has not proven herself to be an F1 caliber driver. If you think she has, you're nuts.

2) She gets more hype and press coverage than other drivers do, even drivers who are better than she is. This is undeniable.

3) She has, so far, failed to secure a win despite quite a few chances. Maybe it will be forthcoming in the future, but until it comes, she's not a winning driver and certainly not worthy of all the hype surrounding her.

4) I think her personality requires some polishing and she doesn't seem to be all that likeable and affable. Seems self centered to me. IMO that's not a good quality in a driver.



Because she's a young semi-good-looking woman, there's tons of you guys falling all over her saying she's the next big thing in F1, that she's one of the best drivers out there, that she's amazing, wonderful, etc, etc. Some of us aren't falling for the hype and belive (correctly) that if she were not a young woman, we'd not hear much about her at all.

She will never ever make it into F1. If she does, she will embarass herself. She just simply does not have what it takes. It does not take years and years and years to "work up" to F1. If you have that something special, you will get a ride. God knows Danica has WAY more opportunities to excel than most others do, but she doesn't excel. Not because she's being held back or because she needs more seat time, but rather because she's just not got that something special that the likes of Michael Schumacher, or Kimi, or Alonso, or many others have. Furthermore, its been shown that even drivers who are amazing drivers in lesser series can't hack it in F1. IRL means nothing to what you can do in an F1 car. I've raced high speed ovals and while I would agree it is challenging and takes guts, its a different animal than road course racing. Guys like Zanardi and DaMatta and others (who were light years better than Danica) stumbled in F1. So did guys like Yoong, McNish, and many others. These are all guys who were IMO better than Danica outside of F1.

I think she will fade out over the next couple of years. If she ever does get a shot at F1, it will be a marketing exercise and it will be short lived because she'll embarass herself.

 

Guys, stop arguing with Mike right now. Much like Sato, he is a squirrely guy who is all over the place depending on where logic corners him. He is quite simply angry that Danica Patrick has a professional ride at all.

 

Not to mention she crashed 2 laps into her first F1 test. She put the Minardi off at Vallelunga...

 

Hornish beat Marco by about 6 feet and took home $1,046,350 MORE than Marco. Pretty costly real estate.
Next time watch Marco stay in it until WELL past the line!

I'd say a pretty good race all in all. Too bad about Al, Jr. going out, and Danica getting caught by the yellow with her last green light pit stop. Marco dicing with his Dad and Hornish for the last few laps without incident says something too.

Thanks for a good show to all (well, most of) the drivers.

 

Too bad this is morphing into the Milka-Katherine thread, but about Legge, she is from the same mold as Danica.

I'm sorry, but both Milka and Liz are able to buy their rides. Yes, you have to have some talent, but the checkbook rules... Back to those that earned it, Patrick and Legge...

She had a karting background and camped out in the (Cosworth) office of Kevin Kalkhoven until he would see her to get the Atlantic ride. She then proceeded to win three Atlantic races last year, a series where Danica finished most of the races in the top-five the year before (and the series where Buddy Rice was Champion) and has been proclaimed "the real deal," deservedly so.

It was a calculated gamble by Jimmy Vasser and Jim McGee to put Katherine in the car this year, particularly when the series is going to a totally new car next year but they did it anyway, to give her more track time. She'll come good.

-Peter

 

On Danica: 12th in the IRL championship last year is "good"? The best thing that she did this year was stay out of trouble. She's not a bad driver, but I'd be willing to bet on the side of her never getting a race win. If Tony George comes to his senses and agrees to an open-wheel merger, she'll be mid-pack in a much deeper field. Her biggest advantage right now is lack of competition.

On Marco: Great job on the drive, kid, you showed all of those that were breathing heavy for Danica last year what a rookie can do. I'm one of those that thought Michael brought you up too soon to fill the field at Indy. I stand corrected, as much as I hate Michael I would have liked for a 1-2 Andretti finish, for Mario's sake.

On Legge, for axemansean: Everyone on the team, including Kat, admitted that this would be a learning year for her, and not to expect too much, unlike the much-hyped Danica, who still has 0 wins since she moved up from karts.

 

Instead of Danica Patrick if it was a Dan Patrick with the same achievements as her, then I bet none of you would root so much for her/him.

She has talent and the racers in the crowd like Lolaman have acknowledged that. No one's denying it.

All I am saying is that the IRL field has a lot of talent in it. So Danica is nothing exceptional. There are CART champions, IRL champions, race winners, etc who are a lot more deserving of an F1 tryout than Danica.

I think F1 talent watchers are looking for a blend of talent and stellar track record. She has the first but not the latter.

Some of you must think that anyone can get into F1. Look into the bios of the Fr drivers ... all are past champions in feeder series and race winners. Its the cream of the crop that gets in.

To me the drivers who deserve to be in F1 are
- Sebastien Bourdais
- Tony Kanaan
- Tony Stewart now
- Jeff Gordon albeit a few years back
- Mark Martin about 20 years back

And as for Tomas Schecter, he was test driving for jaguar racing sometime back but was fired for some silly reason. I guess the real reason was that there was nothing exceptional about him and the team used this as a convenient way to get rid of him..

 

A 1-2 Andretti WOULD have been storybook for sure.....it would have taken some dirty tricks, IMO.....

I think Sam would have driven thru the grass, if he had to.....LOL! He was that close to the stripe....

I think this discussion has run a little off track...the race is a long grueling affair and people like Helio crashing out prove that ONE instant of brain fade can end your day!

I thight it interesting that Castro/Rice impact came from trying to crowd thru the Turn 4 groove (it's pretty narrow)...later I think Kanaan basically did the same thing passing the number 14 car but got away with it! Putting the last Foyt entry up against the wall...

It's a big race and a long day...I'm glad that spinnig debris didn't kill a fan, it looked just like a lawnmower blade spinning over that fence.

 

I agree with your list except for the Tony Stewart now. I would say Tony Stewart minus 50 pounds. Then I would agree. Right now, I doubt if he would fit in a single seat F1 car without bursting a vessel. As for his skill, absolutely he would be great with anything on wheels.

I would only ask that he put a tartan plaid design on his helmet and tell everyone that he is Sir Jackie's illegitimate son. During interviews he would utter, "What a wonderful motor car race!" And then he would ram the camera against the phtographer's face.

 

In reference to your points above, answered in your typical crass no class manner:
1) I agree, she is not ready for F1. With additional experience and training, she could be in five years. No, I really doubt that she will ever be a Schumacher or one of the other top 5-6 current great F1 drivers, but she could be as good as the other 16-17 of them. As for the years and years it takes to get into F1, I would point out Fernando, Kimi, and Nico.

2) I agree, she gets tons of press coverage. So what? This has been good for American open wheeled racing specifically, and motor sports in general. Why do you have a problem with this? She is good for the sport, just as Jeff Gordan is good for NASCAR.

3) I agree she has not won. Yet. But I absolutely disagree with your sexist mentality about the hype she has received. She deserves it, she has motivated a lot of young people, both male and female. Your myopic point of view is really evident here. Two years in a row in a pressure filled Indy 500, she demonstrated what many male drivers with more experience have not ever demonstrated, speed, consistency and maturity behind the wheel. Why do you deny that? If she had fallen on her face this year, wrecked, finished 33rd, whatever, then it would have been obvious that all the hype from 2005 was misguided. But she didn't, she did very well, and for some reason that bothers you. Because Helio took out Buddy based on poor judgement, does that make Helio a worse than Danica?

4) I agree that she needs to attend the Neil Bonnet School of Race Driver Marketing, but she is young, agressive and it shows. Give her time. I would assume you think that Kimi R, or even Alsonso have great personalities? Senna had a crap self centered personality, so once again using your philosophy, he was a not a good driver? Dale Earnhardt came off as a bad ass, in reality he was quite benevolent, and again with your thinking he must have been a bad driver as his personality showed as being near jerk level.

Not everyone has the PR savvy of Schumacher, Jeff Gordan, Tony K, Helio, etc. But that does not make tham a bad driver.

I am not putting words in to your mouth. I am only taking your words and going further to demonstrate your really narrow minded thinking. Please accept this as constructive criticism.

 

Mmmmmmm...Milka!

 

It's obvious who the real racers are. People insisting that Danica's 8th place in this single race shows her to be sub-standard and yet Marco's second place in this single race shows him to be the next superstar.

If you knew anything about racing you'd know that a single race is worthless in trying to read the tea leaves...

 

I believe he was fired for picking up a hooker in the company Jaguar...make that Shaguar...

 

srt mike is correct about danica...she is the anna kornakova of the race world!

 

IRL oval boys at the Glen. Friday practice Castroneves 1st at 133.7 MPH, Marco 3rd at 133.1 mph. Danica spun.

 

The Glen is Danica's worst course. Look at last year. So what!

Surprising that the Ganassi boys have switched from the Dallaras that they've run all year on ovals to the Panoz thaey ran last year... Wheldon and Dixon are doing well.

 

Hah! Spoke too soon. Danica is three spots ahead of Marco in the damp, eighth overall (out of 19), three spots behind Scott Dixon who is driving the fastest Panoz...

 

Check again. Marco starts P3 (1:31.172). Danica starts P16 (1:33.874). Nearly three seconds per lap is an eternity. At least she outqualified Cheever, Carpenter, and Giaffone.

Anna, the lighting isn't good. Can you turn a little to the left...

John

 

Bottom line is that she's competitive.

 

Dude, look at the (damp) third practice times!

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article.asp?ID=220190&FS=IRL

Qualifying is old news...

 

You're a tough guy to have an intelligent conversation with, but at least I try

She is good for IRL, for sure. Would she be good for F1? I doubt it. Not because she wouldn't be rooted for, but because she wouldn't be able to perform and would flunk out before long. That would be nothing but bad news for drawing sponsors and fans (From the USA) to F1.

It's not that I am biased against a woman - I'm of the generation that doesn't really care about gender. Rather, you're leg humping this woman like I've never seen. She's not going to fall for you Ron - she's half your age and decent looking - so it's OK to consider her based solely on the merits of her driving. Based on that, she is an average performer in IRL. I don't think Marco has proved anything either and I'd say he'd likely embarass himself if he went into F1 also. Same with most of the drivers on the IRL grid. Very few do well in F1. Even the guys in US open wheel racing that DO have something special (like Da Matta) don't generally do well in F1. So considering that Danica is no Montoya, Zanardi, Da Matta, etc, there's no basis to say we'd be surprised how well she'd do. If you were ogling her results sheet as much as her physique you'd see that.

The drivers above let their driving do the talking. You need one of the two - a great drive or a great personality. But you damn well better have one or the other. If you have both you'll get far, neither you will have a hard time. She'd better develop the former or latter or she'll be a washout in no time.

Also, the drivers you mentioned actually WON RACES which is kinda important.

Just because I dont leg hump the women doesn't mean its myopic. Its based on review of her results. Actually I think your line of thinking is much more insulting and demeaning. You seem to feel she should get breaks or special treatment because she's a woman. I don't think she should get special treatment positively or negatively. I'm sure if she is the real deal as you suggest, she would not want it either. But I'm sure she's glad you're there to make excuses for her

 

When you can't argue the message, go after the messenger. I'll take that as you have nothing to debate the merits of what I posted, so you went for the ad hominem attack. I win!

...and Danica still hasn't won a single race.