Schumi is a cheat - SPOILER

I don't believe MS cheated, I believe he made a terrible decision, for which he paid. Cheating requires planning and personally, I don't think that was the case. I think he made a mistake and took the worse of his possible options. I agree that he is still the best, though Raikkonen appears to be the next.

The real question I have after today is, where would Mercedes/Mclaren be if V10 developement had continued? Would Raikkonen be dominating?

- Chris

 

Of course he cheated - but I bet he wasn't alone in making the decision. Just like when he ran into Damon Hill all those years ago. We know he wants to win which is good but now and again he gets that red mist and does something he doesn't need to do which tarnishes his reputation as being the best driver in the world. Why he did it we'll never know but I know that in F1 circles Ferrari 'bend' the rules more than most and, until this weekend, usually get away with it.

 

..At least Schumi has got the right number of cylinders behind him.

Like all proper modern Ferrari's..!!

long live the V8..!!

 

At least at Adelaide 1994, there was a championship directly at stake. I would only expect Schumacher to put up a very hard fight for that position, and yes, that can result in a collision. This is racing and Hill made the mistake of wanting too much, too soon.

Talk about Silverstone and Monza 1995 for a change. Don´t see many people talking about those incidents. The fact that in those cases the championship wasn´t directly on the table, makes them all the more suspicious.

 

Well.... Since you feel that way about it... go head and sell it!

Just my 2 cents

 

I agree with this for sure. Had Rubens not held up the pack, then I think we would have seen MS above 5th. Great determination and great showing from MS - I'm not one of the "fair weather" Tifosi - I'm a true Tifosi no matter what the situation. GO Ferrari!!!


Referencing the post that started this thread:

Schumi is a cheat - SPOILER

Makes me ashamed to own a ferrari with all this cheating going on

- - - if you are ashamed to own a Ferrari, let me know as we can make space for another one to keep our Mondial t company - - -


Carol

 

Exactly. I am getting a little tired of those accusations. Every time Ferrari or Schumacher does the slightest thing wrong in the eyes of their enemies, the world is upside down again and it is assumed they are cheating. I don't think Schumacher was cheating during the Monaco 2006 qualification. I admit it looked very weird from outside the car, but from the inside you could clearly see he almost lost the back end. Mistake or not, I really don't believe Schumacher would be that stupid to waste a (at that moment) secure front row starting position, being either pole or 2nd place.

What irritates me the most in a situation like this is Mr. J. Villeneuve. He will grab any chance to bash Schumacher if he makes a mistake, while Villeneuve himself has made more silly mistakes in his career than Schumacher has race victories...
Another thing I find exceedingly odd is that everybody always seems to remember the mistakes/situations Schumacher was involved in, and far less (if anything) from other drivers. Like GTE already pointed out, Adelaide 1994 for example. This situation will always be very subjective, but IF Hill had been a little more patient and waited until the next corner he would have won the race and the championship. Schumacher was not going to finish anyway because he had hit the wall shortly before. Jerez 1997 was definately a stupid move from Schumacher and he made a fool out of himself and Ferrari at that moment. No question about it.
Silverstone and Monza 1995: Hill took Schumacher and himself out on both occasions in very silly moves, but again, nobody seems to remember that. The same goes for the many "attacks" J.P. Montoya made on his fellow drivers in recent years. A little further back in F1 history: Prost and Senna both had their share of controversial moments crashing each other out of the race. Senna once hit Eddie Irvine in the face for overtaking him while he was a lap down. Not a bad word about Senna because he is considered God. Many times in F1 history races and championships have been won under circumstances that were not entirely "clean". All drivers are human and in the heat of the battle weird situations do occur, in the past, today and in the future.

 

OK I have read all these posts and other threads about the Michael thing for a couple of days now.
For all those who think Michael cheated and make somekind of connection to Michael and the car you own - Sell the damn car. I have two children and will not tolerate cheating in any way. My son races off-road motorcycles and it is fairly common to see a rider take another out. If my son does anything like that he knows he loses his bike for good. I have watched the replay many times and have no doubt that he locked up the car and was correcting. I can't count the number of times I see someone go off in F-1 and stall due to the complex trannys on these cars. Reverse is an afterthought.
Even if the FIA or whoever think he cheated with no concrete physical evidence the penalty was way too harsh. This could be the most competitive year in the last 10 as far as the drivers. FA, Kimi, MS, Webber and of course IDE ( just a joke) . and the governing bodies should do everything they can to keep the close racing. It was a real historical joy to watch Michael come from the back and prove his greatness, but the championship should be a hallow one for FA if it's close at the end.
I must tell you I hate Nascar because of the way they run into each other on purpose. I am a photojournalist who covers it regularly and retaliation is a common thing. But the nature of the racing makes the battles very intense sometimes and F-1 could learn a few things from them.
For me personally I get sick of all the hero worship or hatred aimed at one personality or another. I just love to watch what they do. When the helmets are on its great sport and beauty and the purest competition, when the helmets come off it becomes TV entertainment and I usually grab a beer and go work on my 308. Hell I hate reality shows.

 

Comment of the year!

 

I expected the Euro newspapers to bash MS and they did, but I didn't expect an Italian news paper (Tuttosport) to do the same (Corriere della Sera still is on his side though).

I just wonder what effect the whole story has on MS' decision to continue or quit racing after this year?

 

MS is a cheat - he does not even understand the concept of sportsmanship. A hollow former champion behaving disgracefully. Blackens the whole marque - but to be fair Enzo Ferrari would probably have approved.

 

classic.

 

Is that right ????? He acted gracefully and in full sportsmanship.....he did not comment or act like a whiny former champion, and he fought to race into 5th place from the back. This is nothing short of gentleman conduct.
I suggest you look it up in the dictionary since you maybe somewhat confused of the term.

 

Think you should look up the meaning of the word 'cheat'.

 

Yup, very true. He underwent his (very severe) punishment and let his driving do the talking the very next day. They don´t come much better than this.

 

Not to argue the point, but the punishment could have been harder: They could have come down with a race ban for one or more races as you remember from 94. It would have caused a global outcry and destroyed the Championship suspense for good, but the FIA can do whatever it wants.

 

cheat
3 entries found for cheat.
To select an entry, click on it.
cheat[1,verb]cheat[2,noun]cheat sheet

Main Entry: 1cheat
Pronunciation: 'chEt
transitive senses
1 : to deprive of something valuable by the use of deceit or fraud
2 : to influence or lead by deceit, trick, or artifice
3 : to elude or thwart by or as if by outwitting <cheat death>
intransitive senses
1 a : to practice fraud or trickery b : to violate rules dishonestly (as at cards or on an examination)
2 : to be sexually unfaithful -- usually used with on
- cheat&#183;er noun
synonyms CHEAT, COZEN, DEFRAUD, SWINDLE mean to get something by dishonesty or deception. CHEAT suggests using trickery that escapes observation <cheated me out of a dollar>. COZEN implies artful persuading or flattering to attain a thing or a purpose <always able to cozen her grandfather out of a few dollars>. DEFRAUD stresses depriving one of his or her rights and usually connotes deliberate perversion of the truth <defrauded of her inheritance by an unscrupulous lawyer>. SWINDLE implies large-scale cheating by misrepresentation or abuse of confidence <swindled of their savings by con artists>.




As per the dictionary I have looked up to have you explain to me where in this definition "gentleman, and sportsmanship" fit into this ??? Cause you say MS does not understand sportsmanship. Plus you are assuming he is guilty without really knowing.

Explain away please...................MS started last and ended up 5th with respect. WHy are you attacking him personally then ?

 

2 and 1a look good to me

I don't want to believe he did it but he did, ...water, bridge, under ....NEXT !!!

Ferrari 1-2 for Silverstone .... who use to say this all the time ??

 

Watch his right hand after the car has come to a complete stop. He throws it up in anger because his pissed at himself for making such a stupid mistake. I think we can all agree that Mr. Shumacher is somewhat of a perfectionist and this would be a pretty consistent reaction to flubbing what should be an easy corner.

After seeing this comparrison of the driver lines, it's clear to see that Michael took a line that was too shallow into the corner. Fred took a noticably wider line and clipped the apex very close but cleanly.

At first I thought Michael was cheating because he has done it twice (Hill @ Adilaede 1994 and ramming car into back of another driver in 1997? I think it was JV.) but now I am not so sure. I think he just screwed the pooch.

 

Forget about his ramming into other cars. Just the fact that he already has a record of this same sort of blocking maneuver to secure the pole position from his karting days AND his Formula 3000 days makes me forget about giving him the benefit of the doubt.
Schuey fans cannot have their cake and eat it too. Either he cheated, in which case he is not the greatest driver in the world, or he didn't cheat, which means he made a hilarious blunder, in which case he still isn't the greatest driver in the world. And note: I am using the word "greatest", not "best".

 

Reading this thread is eye opening. Some people really will defend just about anything.

Of course he cheated. But don't take my word for it, ask the steward:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/52069

 

Why do people keep saying F3000?

Michael never raced that series.

Immediately before F1 he was doing Group C and Formula 3.

 

I'm curious: how many people who think he cheated saw the entire corner in high resolution video (satellite or digital cable) and have experience rotating a corner? How many saw NTSC broadcast standard replays only?

(Should this be a poll? racer/nonracer, hidef or broadcast, live or cropped replay, cheat or goof)

When I first saw it, it looked like an obvious goof: overrotating the first apex. Even then, the periscope camera left the question why he didn't just pull out of the way.
The in-car (from low angle) replay anwered that second question (and some of the hi cams): the left front wheel was in shadow and you couldn't tell from the driver's perspective if it would clear -- bad sun angle.

But the worse quality replay I see, the less the goof is visible. It was pretty subtle even on digital satellite. Only one commentator also saw the back end get flaky under braking approaching the first apex -- although I might have missed some comments on the russian or spanish language replays.

 

>>>I'm curious: how many people who think he cheated saw the entire corner in >>>high resolution video (satellite or digital cable) and have experience rotating >>>a corner?

The stewards for one.

 

haha...the steward was spanish too....