As long as everyone remembers this is a Ferrari website, and most people here are extremely biased towards road racing. Some folks say nascar puts them to sleep - ok, here I am, I paid $250 for my seat here in Imola - here comes a car - ZING! - and it's GONE. I got to see it for 4 seconds. yippee....... We really are comparing two totally different sports here, the only thing they have in common is 4 wheels. nascar will never touch F1 ? I don't know if I would ever say 'never', saloon car racing is picking up in yurrup, I'll give it 20 years and it will surpass F1. You will see Honda, Mercedes and BMW in nascar within 10 years. A sidenote- 'they say' F1 TV viewership is a billion people, where do they get these numbers ? Don't any of you question them ? I don't buy 'a billion'.
No. Won't happen. DTM was always strong in Europe, as is Rally and Le Mans Group C etc. But they all are 2nd fiddle to F1. NASCAR has the appeal of the exotic. Always had, just like the Indy 500. But that's not gonna let it ever go pass F1. Europeans are into high tech cars and the finesse of driving on road circuits. NASCAR is based on standardized technology and ovals. That's why it has some appeal but won't go past a certain threshold. We could have a similar discussion why the NFL will never surpass soccer in Europe despite some football games being played regionally. It is all a cultural thing.
You are absolutely correct in it is a 'cultural' thing, but (going out on a limb here), 40 years ago Bowling was huge, now it's not so big, 20 years ago men's slow-pitch softball was huge, now it's nowhere near as big, and 20 years ago, nascar wasn't so big, but by the same token, neither was any other motorsport. But now look at it, and drag racing as well. Also, 15 years ago WOO Outlaw Sprint car racing was extremely big, now, it's TEENY. I would be willing to place money on if you asked 10 F1 fans in Europe to name some current nascar drivers, they could, but if you asked 10 american nascar fans to name any current F1 drivers, they can't. All that tells me is the PR factor for nascar is working all over the world, and F1's isn't. 'Culture' is being stomped on by PR, and it's everything, not just motorsports. I'm not arguing, I'm just saying it's tough to compare the two - TODAY. I guess I learned long ago to 'never say never'.
Not necessarily. To me it just means that Americans don't care what's outside their border whereas Europeans do. Without trying to bash NASCAR let me just say, it is not working for the Euro culture. None of it.
To me, it means the mighty american PR machine that is nascar is working, and the mighty PR machine known as F1 is not. And I am by NO means a nascar fan of any sort, but I do recognize good marketing when I see it. Apples and oranges.......
Actually the publicity of NASCAR isn't that great outside the US. Noone gives a damn about the soap opera NASCAR drivers. Who cares? All they do is go round in circles. It's quite the opposite to what you describe. Ask an Australian to name some F1 drivers, and they'll tell you Michael Schumacher, Mark Webber, maybe Alonso if they watch the news. NASCAR drivers? ummm.... Although I'm sure the V8 Supercar fans here have got a better chance of knowing about NASCAR than F1 fans.
Tifosi12 posted up an article with BMW Sauber having an interactive pit area during select GPs. That's the beginning and I believe more teams will do that. It'll bring in more fans and they're doing it to create a fan base for BMW in F1 (clear their minds of Williams BMW). I even got an e-mail from them saying they would exchange my Williams BMW hat for a BMW Sauber one (same if you have a Sauber instead of Williams). If I were a team owner/manager, I'd broadcast the radio comm between the driver and crew even on the website. Some fans, including me, would really enjoy that.
I hope so too. I think what we're seeing are the teams realizing they need a fan base (after all it is sponsor money incl. car manufacturers that keeps them going) and they try to cater to that. Whereas Bernie is trying to go the opposite direction with making F1 even more remote from the actual fans and turning it into an exclusive thing. Good news is that Bernie's days are numbered and that the teams are now starting to make their own effort towards the fans as they should. In that sense F1 can learn a lot from American racing or basically any non F1 racing.
F1 = Drag race to first corner. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. How many lead changes in an average F1 race?
Exactly. I watch F1 for the start, then if I care to I watch the ensuing parade laps waiting to see which cars will break. Occassionally there's a pass due to pit strategy. Another two cars or three will break and then we have our winner. MS or Alonso.
What you say is probably true in Australia. Ask a Brit about NASCAR and any of them into racing knows who Gordan and Stewart are. Soon you will be able to ask a race fan in Japan, and they might know. And don't forget, Starter in France actually made models of NASCAR cars some years ago. Maybe that's why they call Australia, "down under". :}
Although I prefer F1 for its technology (slowly being eroded by stupid rules), I guess you could say that F1 races can be rather "unexciting" most of the time compared to the typical NASCAR race. All depends on one's definition of competition. Mine is close side by side racing, without a real easy prediction of the winner. F1 is rather predictable, maybe less this year than years past, NASCAR is virtually having a different winner every week. Bottom line, it is really silly to try to compare these two forms of racing. They are so different, that's why I like them both.
I'd say Nextel Cup races are more exciting than F1 only in the last 5-10 laps. The remaining amount of the NASCAR race is less exciting than any part of F1. There have been way too many EXTREMELY BORING F1 races recently. I don't even want to remember 2004 let alone 2002. NASCAR is consistently exciting in the last 10 laps, never seen a bad race. Of course this is all imho. My favorite race I've seen of F1 (only been watching since 2001 when we got cable), would be Suzuka last year. Kimi was ridiculous!
You're quite right. My friend who is true NASCAR fan goes gaga over the gazillion in my opinion meaningless lead changes and loves the extremely close competition. He goes on to bash F1 for it being predictable (Alonso, MS or Kimi) because the winner often drives away into the distance from the start line. For me one pass as Kimi pulled off on Webber in Monaco or some of the stuff MS did fighting from dead last made me scream at the edge of my seat. To me those passes meant something I won't forget. Anyway, you're right, comparing NASCAR and F1 is pointless. And it wasn't the intention of this thread (open wheel vs Nascar) nor of the underlying article (Champ cars vs Nascar). Now when you compare say IRL with NASCAR you've almost apples to apples. Not that I personally care about that discussion (I'll give you a topic, talk amongst yourselves), but it makes more sense since both are American based, spec series and use ovals primarily with the outcome of close nose to nose races.
Can't we just say all types of racing have their own attractions, and be done with it ? I'm not saying one is better than the other, but I still question how much the 'common folk' of Europe follow F1, because I know about 20 folks in Europe, and NONE of them follow - or know anything about - F1. By the same token, they are not racing fans of any sort, to be honest with you, but they do follow sports. It's just amazing to me we seem to get into an argument over which one is 'better', when they are totally different by comparison, there is no 'better', but there sure is 'different'. Everyone has their own thoughts on who the best driver that ever lived was, who the best ever actor, actress, soccer player, hitter in baseball, pitcher, basketball player, etc. when everything is subjective to your own thoughts and definitions. F1 racing is kinda like America's Cup yacht racing - general folk tune in once in awhile, but they know nothing about it, and don't remember a thing about it (except that damned winged keel 23 years ago, LOL). Now, back to Paintball on ESPN.........
You're asking the wrong people in Europe. All the folks I know in Europe that follow car racing follow F1. If you're die hard, you also follow DTM, Le Mans and Rally, but F1 is first *IF* you're into car racing; at least for the majority of people. As for better: I'm not buying into your argument simply because if you start switching drivers from various racing formats around you soon will discover where the best drivers are. F1 drivers past their prime (or who never had one in F1) do very well in things like DTM, Champ Cars and the like. That doesn't mean that say a NASCAR guy couldn't do well in F1 (Jeff Gordon), but I haven't seen it so far, which is a pity. About the only place where I don't want to say which is better/requires more talent is Rally vs F1. We'll see how Kovalainen will do in F1 next year, but I have a feeling Rally might actually be the ultimate.
I apologize, I misunderstood. I thought we were discussing the racing itself, not the individual drivers. And you said it yourself: 'the folks you know in europe that follow racing....' That's tantamount to me saying 'the folks here that watch basketball..... watch the NBA'. The average sports 'fan' here that does NOT follow nascar still recognizes the names of the drivers, but they don't know F1 drivers' names, and that's the fault of the media, or due to the fact that that info is not demanded by the viewers (of Sports Center, etc.) I tend to agree with you on the Rallye driver comparison.
I'm not picking on individual drivers (or I would have brought up the Mansell vs Andretti swap already), but doing a general comparison: Just look at the drivers who went to different series and how they did on average and you'll get the picture what series requires more talent/experience etc. In regards to the common folks: Even if I think of my friends in Europe (remember I lived there for 30 years) who didn't follow any motor racing, they still could come up with F1 driver names etc. Just go to Europe, any city and look at a newspaper stand what magazines you'll find. It is hard to ignore F1. Same goes for TV and ads in newspapers etc.
Except for drag racing, I don't know any hard-core racing fans that watch ALL of a race from start to finish anymore. They may watch 50 or 75% of a race, but usually not all of it. Yes, I know there are exceptions to the 'rule' here.
If it wasn't for the commercials, I'd be watching 100% of each GP. It is the only sport I watch/care (exception being the Olympics and World Cup Soccer).
^Same here. Usually watch em twice, or at least the better parts again while I'm cycling on rollers in the basement. It's more a product of there being so few watchable shows on TV than my dedication, etc.
