308 uneven brake temps/pulling | FerrariChat

308 uneven brake temps/pulling

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Impactco, Jun 6, 2006.

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  1. Impactco

    Impactco Formula 3

    Jan 29, 2006
    1,615
    My '85 308 has been pulling to the right intermittently. Sometimes the problem goes away for a few days and then returns. I recently replaced all brake pads with Porterfield R4-S pads, adjusted the rear pads to correct clearance and pressure bled the system with a Motive bleeder. This did not resolve the issue. I purchased a laser non-contact thermometer from Harbor Freight and noted that the right front brake disc is 165 degrees after a drive while the remaining discs are around 110. From reading other posts here, it sounds like a stuck caliper piston or a collapsed brake line might be the cause. How can I determine whether to rebuild the caliper or replace the line? Thanks.
     
  2. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2005
    100,234
    Mount Isa, Australia
    Full Name:
    Pap

    Its difficult to diagnose from here...........but maybe you should remove the caliper and then the piston and inspect/clean. You may have crap/gunk behind the piston which is not allowing the piston to release properly once you are off the brake pedal. That will cause the brakes/wheel to overheat and also it would be the 1st to pull/lock up,as the piston doesnt have to travel as far onto the disc if it has crap behind it. It is a little harder to determine a fautly brake hose thats internally collapsed. Remove the hose from the car and have a feel of it. It should be nice and hard,but still flexiable, not soft and jelly like. Even blow some compressed air through it if you can to make sure its not blocked/collapsed. But i think your problem lies in the caliper. :)
     
  3. junkyarddog

    junkyarddog Formula Junior

    May 18, 2006
    353
    Palatka, FL
    Full Name:
    Kelly Lake
    If none of the above work it could possibly be your proportioning valve. They don't go out too often but it does happen. Unlikely solution but you never know.
     
  4. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Consultant Owner

    May 5, 2001
    7,022
    Groton, MA
    Full Name:
    Verell Boaen
    If the caliper isn't parallel with the rotor, it'll cock the pistion & cause it to tend to bind & stick. Also, lots of wear in the caliper's piston hole can leave room for the piston to cock & bind.
     
  5. Impactco

    Impactco Formula 3

    Jan 29, 2006
    1,615
    Thanks for the feedback guys.

    What technique/tool is used to measure this? Where can I find specs on piston/cylinder size. Thanks!
     
  6. pad

    pad Formula 3

    Sep 30, 2004
    1,426
    Tequesta, FL
    Full Name:
    Paul Delatush
    When you first bled out the system, did you notice "dirty" brake fluid from the front cylinders? By "dirty" I mean a muddy black color. Is so, that's a strong indication that the rubber brake lines are starting to break down.
     
  7. Impactco

    Impactco Formula 3

    Jan 29, 2006
    1,615
    Nope, fluid was brownish but not black.
     
  8. pad

    pad Formula 3

    Sep 30, 2004
    1,426
    Tequesta, FL
    Full Name:
    Paul Delatush
    Brownish usually comes from rust. Time to check the callipers. In some cases, it can be caused by corosion in the metal brake lines, in which case, the lines should be replaced. To avoid this, change the brake fluid every few years.
     
  9. jwise

    jwise Formula Junior

    Apr 2, 2003
    781
    Portland Maine
    Did you replace the pads and bleed the system because of this problem, or did it start happening after the new pads and fluid?

    Were the rotors machined during the pad replacement? How did they look?

    Does it pull to the right under hard braking, or every day driving, or both?

    My car did the same thing (only under very heavy braking) before and after a caliper rebuild, pads, turned rotors, and new flexible brake lines. I drove the car for a couple hundred miles, bled the system again (including cracking open the lines at the master- messy) and all is well so far.

    To check if the rotors are even with the caliper, I used a digital caliper and took some measurements between the lip surrounding the caliper piston and the face of the rotor- top/bottom and iside/outside of the rotor. Honestly, I'm not sure this is the best place to measure- maybe someone else has a better method.
     
  10. tomberlin

    tomberlin Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Apr 9, 2005
    854
    Bethesda
    Full Name:
    tom berlin
    Jack up the front after a drive, when one rotor is hotter than the other. See if one wheel is harder to turn than the other. Crack the bleeder on the stiff wheel. If this frees the wheel it's the hose, if it doesn't it's the caliper or the pads getting out of line(a problem I've never seen). Did the pads all slide in with equal ease when you replaced them? Did they come out with equal ease? If you have a bad hose it should have become evident when you pushed the pistons back to put in new pads.
    Cheers, Tom
     
  11. Impactco

    Impactco Formula 3

    Jan 29, 2006
    1,615
    This was a pre-existing condition before new pads and fluid. Rotors looked fine so they were not machined. Seems intermittent, but mostly under hard braking.


    Excellent diagnostic procedure! I used a small pry bar on the fronts to compress the pistons and I don't recall any difficulty getting old ones out and new ones in.
     
  12. Impactco

    Impactco Formula 3

    Jan 29, 2006
    1,615
    I drove the car today and everything was normal including the disc temps! A mystery.
     
  13. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Consultant Owner

    May 5, 2001
    7,022
    Groton, MA
    Full Name:
    Verell Boaen
    I'm wondering if you've got a problem with the caliper that's NOT overheating. This would result in the other caliper doing more of the work of stopping the car, hence overheating.

    Disassemble the caliper to see if there are marks from the piston scraping the side of the cylinder walls. If the piston is cocking, then there should be a noticable mark on the cylinder wall where the end of the piston is jaming into the wall.

    If you have internal & external micrometers, you can measure the piston & cylinders to verify that they're round. The cylinder-piston clearance should be constant, so you don't actually need specs.

    Callper-rotor parallelism being off will produce uneven pad wear, one edge of the pad will have much more wear than the other edge. You can detect this by measuring the pad thickness at each edge. If it's bad enough, you'll see that the pad is becoming tapered. Locating a machined surface on the caliper & measuring from it to the rotor surface as JWise described is the measurement technique. Sometimes you can mount a dial caliper on the rotor & swing it between points on the caliper surface.
     

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