Need help on Vibration after clutch service | FerrariChat

Need help on Vibration after clutch service

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by GregD, Jun 30, 2006.

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  1. GregD

    GregD Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    885
    California
    Full Name:
    Greg
    I had the clutch replaced on my 2004 Maserati coupe and an annual service after about 18,000 miles by the dealer/service ctr. The car went in sounding and feeling great, and now has vibrations at about 4,000 rpm. After 5,000rpms the vibration isnt as prevalent, but the car does not feel right. It also doesnt sound nearly as good as it did. I took it back and they completely replaced the clutch and drivetrain, noting it was slightly bent.
    This did no good, the car still feels and sounds the same.

    The glorious tubi sound is nothing like it was and the car feels like its being held back or not breathing right when over the 4,000 mark. They say the engine is performing fine, but it feels strained.

    Also, they tightened all the bolts on the exhaust. (during the 1st service)

    Does anyone have any idea of what is causing the vibration and the change in sound from the tubi? Could they have overtightened the exhaust bolts?
     
  2. GCalo

    GCalo F1 Veteran

    Sep 15, 2004
    7,645
    Northern California
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    Greg Calo
    Exhaust bolts are external; exhaust sounds are internal. That's not going to change exhaust note

    Did they perform any ECU upgrades? That could have an effect. Maybe they adjusted shift points.

    Is this an F1 or 6 speed? Not normal for a clutch to vibrate. You might have an out-of-round or out-of-balance pressure plate.
     
  3. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2006
    15,831
    Cerritos, CA.
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    Mike
    Did they remove the flywheel and had it resurface?
     
  4. GregD

    GregD Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    885
    California
    Full Name:
    Greg
    This is an F1 and I did ask about the ECU. They said that they did not perform any ECU upgrades. The last ECU upgrade was done over a year ago. They thought the plates were out of balance after the first service, so they replaced the clutch entirely as well as the driveshaft.

    Mike, I'm not sure if they removed/re-surfaced the flywheel.

    Its hard to put in writing how it feels over 4000 rpms. I hear more engine than exhaust now and the engine sound is not like it was.

    People who know my car notice something is different and wrong and I dont even bring it up.
     
  5. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Consultant Owner

    May 5, 2001
    7,022
    Groton, MA
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    Verell Boaen
    More importantly, was the flywheel & pressure plate balanced together?

    Supposedly this isn't needed with Ferrari replacement PPs which come 'pre balanced'. However, it took almost an ounce of weight to balance the combination, & the shop told me that the flywheel by itself was balanced.

    However, i can see vibration at certain speeds due to an imbalance, but don't see how it would affect power or sound.
     
  6. miketuason

    miketuason F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2006
    15,831
    Cerritos, CA.
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    Mike
    One time I had my engine balanced and I remember my machine shop welded a piece of metal on the preasure plate he said that this is part of balancing an engine any moving parts need to be balance down to ounces, as a result it sure did pay offs i had that motor reving up to 9000+ rpm and it is smooth.

    On my other car I felt an annoying vibration from 1000rpm and up, after diagnosing it I found that my rear motor mount was bad, after replacing it the vibration went away. I just thaugth that the mount on the MASERATI might be bad or installed incorectly, thats all I thought I shared my experience with you, thanks
     
  7. GregD

    GregD Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    885
    California
    Full Name:
    Greg
    Thanks guys for the info.
    The service rep suggested they check the motor mounts but the mechanic wanted to wait for the field rep before they changed more parts.

    I know it has to do with the first service they did,which was a basic service: filter, lubricants, tighten bolts, check brakes, hoses etc.

    I hope is it something as simple as a motor mount, but that doesnt explain the sound change. I hope they can resolve it, because I really dont like the sound it has now.
     
  8. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

    Oct 19, 2001
    16,078
    Arlington Heights IL
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    Kenneth
    Well, sort of. After about 6 months after my new headers were put on, my car started making vague farting noises which were near impossible for me to track down at first. I checked the carb side thinking I had a vacuum leak somewhere. It turned out to be header nuts that were finger loose and the gap was making the noise. But in this case it's definitely not the problem.

    Ken
     
  9. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

    Oct 19, 2001
    16,078
    Arlington Heights IL
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    Kenneth
    I feel your pain; I used to have all kinds of new issues pop up when I'd take my car in for seeming unrelated issues. Not knowing what they did, I can't really help, but I hope you can get details of what it was when they figure it out and you don't have to pay for a dealer's screw up.

    Ken
     
  10. Llenroc

    Llenroc F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 9, 2004
    5,557
    Colorado
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    Vern
    I know you said they didn't do anything but clutch work but, it sounds like a timing issue("feels like it's being held back")or exhaust restriction. As was said earlier seems odd that a clutch change would cause the problems you are describing, unless the clutch was sliping or the paddle shift isn't functioning correctly but, I wouldn't think that would account for the sound difference. There must be more to this story than the person at the dealer knows or is telling you. Are you getting any service lights coming on? Sorry for not being any help but it does sound like an interesting problem to figure out let us know if it gets resolved. Regards, Vern
     
  11. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
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    Mr. Sideways
    Car goes in for planned maintenance, comes out running awful, then dealer volunteers to replace the entire clutch and drivetrain without even yelling at you?!

    Sounds like they dropped your car off of a lift or some such.

    They know that they messed something up.
     
  12. GregD

    GregD Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    885
    California
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    Greg
    I will definitely post their findings, hopefully I'll have more info by the end of next week.

    I knew they were going to replace the clutch. The first visit was for an annual service primarily, and I did advise that the gear indicator on the dash would flash occasionally while in 6th gear. They checked the clutch and it was 92% worn so they called me and I gave the ok for the replacement.

    On the 2nd visit, they replaced the driveshaft because they found the original was slightly off. On the clutch, I'm not sure if they installed another clutch or just checked the new one that they originally installed.

    I would also think that they tuned the engine as part of the service. According to the service report, they tested the engine without the clutch and it was performing normally.

    They asked me to drive it this weekend so the computer would re-learn my driving style. I'd like to drive it, but I'm also concerned that whatever caused the bend in the driveshaft may re-bend it or this unknown issue may be damaging the car in some way.
     
  13. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    29,260
    socal

    Especially if under warranty since they gave the car back to you I would drive the crap out of it and break it. Sometimes it is the only way the part replacers can fingure out what is broken. It sounds to me like they haev no clue of what is going on . If you think Ferraris have problems Masers are worse. Don't ask me how I know.... Good luck however
     
  14. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
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    The Cold North
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    Not quite so sure I belive the bent drive shaft idea. I would be going back over what they touched during the service. If they removed the flywheel to get it machined, they could have installed it wrong.

    I'm not quite sure where the crank sensors are located on the Maserati's but if they read off the flywheel, and the flywheel was installed incorrectly, or damaged in some way this could indeed effect how the car runs.

    the tech could have also indavertantly knocked or left somthing loose under the hood, vac line etc during the service causing this to happen.

    But a bent drive shaft?? I don't think so. I bent a few in my day and they never "just slightly" bend.
     
  15. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
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    Mr. Sideways

    Ha!

    Now that's funny, I don't care who you are.
     
  16. GregD

    GregD Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    885
    California
    Full Name:
    Greg
    Update:


    Engineer did an analysis and they found a collapsed motor mount and the flywheel was not balanced properly. I think he said they sent it out for
    re-surfacing or balancing.

    You guys pretty much called both items right off the bat. Good Job!!!

    Now I cant wait to get the car back.
     
  17. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
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    Mr. Sideways
    Are you thinking that your car was dropped off of a lift hard enough to collapse a motor mount??
     
  18. GregD

    GregD Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    885
    California
    Full Name:
    Greg
    No, I dont think that is possible without quite a bit of body/frame damage.



    Mike & Verell mentioned an imbalanced flywheel and possibly a broken or incorrectly installed motor mount. (both of which were the sources of the vibration)

    I think thats a pretty good call with the limited info from a message board.

    I should have the car back next week and will hopefully post the problems are resolved...

    I had a few jaguars, so Ive learned not to get too excited until I actually drive the car and determine for myself that its fixed.
     
  19. GregD

    GregD Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    885
    California
    Full Name:
    Greg
    ok, the vibration is gone and the cause was from two specific parts.

    1 collapsed motor mount and a 2nd partially collapsed mount.
    The flywheel was balanced and re-surfaced. The work order said
    it had a flyaway of .006. I dont know what that means.

    So if anyone has this issue, that would be a place to check.


    Unfortunately, they re-flashed my software upgrading it to 2004 specs.
    my car is a 2004, but had the 2003 software. Basically they ruined the fun factor in the car for me.

    Now the car is like an automatic. It would be great if I was a woman in my mid fifties that needed a car that was quieter, easier to park, and smoother around town.

    When I attended the masterGT program in Italy, I noticed that the cars they used on the track felt like they were kind of sluggish compared to mine and not nearly as loud. Now I know why. They were 2004 & 2005 models with these ridiculous enhancements.
     
  20. Llenroc

    Llenroc F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 9, 2004
    5,557
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    Greg, Nothing more than just comments here but, I thought it was odd when you said they had only worked on the clutch, to get that poor running prob.(ref. to my post no. 10 on the hold back issue) why did they reflash the ECUs? Crap, I wouild be hot over that issue. Have them put the old programming back in. Assumming that the reflash must have adjusted timing(retarded)which would account for your description of sluggish running. Again it would be interesting to know why they took nit upon themselves to do it in the first place. Regards, Vern
     
  21. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
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    Mr. Sideways
    It's odd that his car keeps coming out of that dealership in worse shape than before.

    Is his car sluggish for the reason that the dealership gave him about the ECU flash, or is it sluggish because of some botched mechanical repair of his bent drivetrain?

    Why did he have broken/crushed motor mounts?

    It's odd. Very, very odd. All of it.
     
  22. GregD

    GregD Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    885
    California
    Full Name:
    Greg
    I dropped it off today. They are going to reflash the old software on the engine and leave the updated software on the transmission. And yes, I was p.o.'d and they knew it.

    Supposedly Maserati NA tells them to do the upgrades on every car that comes in with 01-03 software.

    Hopefully, this will be it.
     
  23. pad

    pad Formula 3

    Sep 30, 2004
    1,426
    Tequesta, FL
    Full Name:
    Paul Delatush
    I hope you have better luck than a friend of my with his 2004 conv. It seems everytime it went in for something wrong, it came out with a host of other problems. He finally traded it in on a new Z06.
     
  24. GregD

    GregD Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    885
    California
    Full Name:
    Greg
    They re-installed the 2003 software and the car is back to normal again.

    What a relief. I've only driven about 10 miles, but it feels good and sounds right. The tubi is alive again at all speeds and it now shifts faster with the transmission software upgrade.
     
  25. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
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    Mr. Sideways
    Hey, now that's great news!

    Thank God that I was wrong.
     

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