Third LP640 Crashed by Balboni

saw the pictures of this "accident", backed into a pole (doesnt look there was much damage though).

the corner it looks like a off camber left corner over a rise (from what i remember) i dare say they were trying to get a pic of it sideways

 

where's the O RLY owl???

 

The trend toward bigger, heavier cars is not confined to Lambo. As others have noted, modern Ferrari 12's are also hefty. Partly to do with safety, partly to do with creature comforts.
My experience with the big mid-engine 12's is that they are not easy to recover if you go beyond the handling capabilities of the car. (Will Hubbell could probably chime in here, since I suspect he has more wheel time in 512's on the track than just about anybody here).

My 6.0 Diablo, like my old Berlinetta Boxer, is a big, lux ride,
handles far better than a car of this size should, but in some ways, that's what tricks you. Both were tail-heavy (the center of gravity on the Boxer higher than the Diablo), but the Diablo is a massive, wide, low machine. Whoever said these cars are not meant for the tight twisties is probably right. Yes, you can make up with power on the straight portions, but physically, the car is just not going to be as lithe and tossable as a smaller car.
The Murcie, to me at least, is simply a continuing progression of the Countach- bigger, heavier, more user friendly perhaps, but no different in overall philosophy.
That said,
I have no idea why B lost it.

 

But mainly due to not enough development time.

There are too many compromises that you have to make in designing a car for a customer base that wants everything.

 

no man, it's Dave.

 

Thnx, Jim. I hate crowds. HOw about a private viewing after you return?

 

oh man, guy i've sat next to at werk for years is dave, but he's known as millsy. i'm always answering his phone telling people "if millsy was here he'd answer his f&*#king phone wouldn't he!!??? stop asking stupid f^&#king questions!!".

from now on i'm doing the "dave's not here man" routine

edit: best thing is, one of the guys who often calls him is also named dave (why o why didn't i think of this earlier!!!??????)

 

A 4000lb car is just way to heavy to recover near the edge, as the Diablo got bigger and heavier Lambo clearly felt the need to go
4wd so that its demographic market wouldn't all dissappear via accidents gold chains and all, the big Lambos are known to blow tires on extended long high speed runs just too much weight heating them up.


The Boxer suffered the same weight gains in it's evolution as many other cars, my BB weighs 3300lbs exactly on the scales with 1/2 tank which is in line with the Ferraris reported dry weight of 3084lbs, the BBi weighed several hundered more, once you get above 3500lbs you are piloting a heavy sled, I'd like my BB to lose about 400 lbs but the only way I see that happening is to start drilling holes everywhere, large displacement 12s are just heavy to begin with.

 

Weight is the "overall performance" enemy and boy, the folks at MB had to do a LOT to get my 4200 lbs CL55 sled to handle well. Active Body Control plus 245/40 tires UP FRONT plus very, very carefully engineered front suspension keeps the understeer at bay and the steering "pseudo-nimble" even in hard turns. You still feel the mass though.

You can add torque to offset increased mass for straightline acceleration but there's nothing "easy" you can do about compensating for handling.

 

You really arent reading my posts.... I specifically indicated that it is extremely tough for manufacturers to lower weight not impossible. I also indicated that the cost to lighten up a big engined car would be astronomical. I never stated it is impossible. But, in the real world, these cars need to be within certain price points so that manufacturers can sell them. That is why there are different models. As I indicated before, they have to make profit. So how is it avoidable when manufacturers have to contend with all those factors? As to physics, we all know that regardless of weight, a mid engined car would have a hard time recovering after it has passed its handling limits based on the fact that majority of the weight is biased to the rear regardless of overall weight. Thats an undeniable fact. That is why Ferrari, and Lamborghini uses traction control and 4wd to be able to mask this inherent trait... As to my enjoying to quote magazines, the only quote was not from the journalists but from ferrari stating to the magazine. Top gear meaning the show where the same driver got in a cgt and slr... Unlike most, I know enough journalists not to believe everything written.

I find it amusing that you always have to refer to your project to support your posts and use every opportunity to show case it. It is completely understandable why you do it. But, comparisons need to be fair. Supporting your post from your one off show car vs a full production car is just plain idiotic. So being fair, lets compare an F1 to an enzo... A mclaren F1 has lighter weight and fully loaded with equipment than an enzo. (Sidenote: Mclaren crash a couple of their f1s as well....) So, I agree with you that it is indeed possible to achieve light weight. But, for the money you are paying for your car, I would expect that AND a full stereo system, navigational system with a full set of luggage as well... I'll give you the benefit of the doubt in your claims that your car is lighter than an enzo. But, at the same time, dont expect it to be compared to anything other than perhaps an arial atom with a big v-12 in the back...

Going to your statement how corvette and lotus achieved lighter weight, how ludicrous is it to compare a 4 cylinder, 8 cylinder car to a 12 cylinder car? With a corvette, add four more cylinders, all the bigger capacity auxillary equipment and an awd system and you are looking at the exact weight of a lp640...

As to Miles statement, key points to note:

A. rain
B. powerful car
c. cocaine

Here is my conclusion. Give someone the keys to your car, let them drive it in the rain, give the guy enough cocaine and I can guarantee you a very similar result regardless of weight.

 

ok. lets do that.... Read my previous posts again and you will see that I already stated previously that weight is not a good thing. But, in the case of the murcie, an unavoidable thing given the wide spectrum of goals it needs to achieve. That is what I have stated from the beginning. For you or anyone to state that the weight is the stand alone factor on a vehicle's safety is simply not true and completely biased. There have been many other ferraris as well as other marques in the same weight class that are very safe... There are simply too many variables other than weight to contend with. That is what I am getting at. It is not whether or not weight makes me want one, makes it faster, and all the things you just stated. Besides, you are correct in the fact that the M wasnt built for mountain roads. In fact, no mid engine v-12 car is suited for mountain roads. Its like asking a greyhound to be be a pointer.... I would just as well get a nice small japanese import and do a much better job carving up the mountain than any 12 cylinder car regardless of its weight. Yes, it would be great to remove 800lbs of weight. But, that is not reality, especially on a full production car that needs to have a big v-12, be within the competitors price range and needs to have all the luxury equipment in order to appeal to a few hundred different and "discerning" enthusiast per year.

Ultimately, I think we just really need to give credit to Lamborghini for being able to build a car that continues to do so many things well. Now if they built a completely new car that is set to equal an enzo or mclaren in both performance and a higher price, then my criteria to Lamborghini would be much more stringent.

But even if that were to happen, it still wont be suitable for twisties...

BTW, by understanding what the murcie is all about, I wouldnt care as much about the weight as I would a track car.

 

lol. thats funny. You are absolutely right. I take my statement back. a mid engine v-12 is indeed good for twisties.... in the 50s and the 60s.

 

Yeah it's tough to make a car with that passes the current safety legislation and still be light..............Bwaaaaaahaaaahahahaaahahahaaaa

The pic is of a little Citroen Saxo VTS, it's got around 130bhp conforms to all the current euro legislation and will out accelerate, brake and corner a 348 or testarossa on pretty much all the country roads you get in good ole europe......the only thing it'll get beaten on is top speed....not really a problem if your lumbering lard arsed car has to brake early to get round the next tight corner
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What a great video clip, Jim. How much does a P2 weigh?
And, I liked the battle between the 250 GTO and the, hmmm,
cough, 'Sprite.'

 

700-900 lbs makes a huge difference in a car, my BB does very well in twisty roads IMO with its 3080lb dry weight, a 4000lb Murci or Diablo would be a handfull on one.

Here's vid of a carbed BB on a twisty road

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBUjf0Yc_Lo&search=ferrari%20512bb


Both the Murci and Diablo are very big cars not to mention the 4wd with all this it adds up to a 3900-4100lb curb weight, L could ditch the 4wd and reduce the size of the car which seemed to be the goal with the Miura prototype which would make a fun tossable car.


BTW 1746lbs is amazing for a V12 Ferrari, car must be a blast to drive.

 

Tell him to keep his hands on the wheel next time...