Factory Restoration of 1983 308GTS 45563

It was a 280 SL. Not a gullwing.

 

EXACTLY!

 

By the way, I said that if the 308 is a "special 308" then you should restore it. I also think that you can add to that list, original owner, or if its been in your family since it was new, is another good reason to consider the restoration.

 

FWIW - I got a quote, for a complete repaint to Pebble Beach quality standards on my 308, of 20 grand if there isnt any rust. This was from Grand Touring here in Virginia that does all of Marriott's cars among others. Then again, the original paint job from Ferrari isn't all that great to begin with on the older cars. 125 grand, give or take, was spent by a previous owner on my BB and it is perfect, but worth that? I do have the Factory Authenticity Certificate though!

DMAX

 

unfortunetly, what you think your car is worth has no importance. your car is truly worth only what someone with cash in hand is willing to pay you on the day you have to sell it. period. your personal car actually has no value to you because no one would pay you what you want for it. therefore you can't sell it so it has no value to you. clearly, investing 30-50k or more in a 308 is a fools game. if it makes you happy, great. but don't make it out to be a smart move. it's possible the value of 308's could rise some over the years. but it's not were i would "invest" 40k. i think it makes much more sense to find a survivor in near perfect condition. this should be less expensive and, i would think, more desireable than a restored car(factory or no). the car i just bought (328) is near perfect and i can't imagine anything the factory could do to it would make it a whole lot better. certainly nothing worth that kind of money. now, if we are talking sentiment, thats a whole nother story. i could see if my dad bought it new and passed it down to me or something like that. i'm with some of the other guys in thinking this is so much hot air.

 

Wetpet,

I know it’s unkind to extrapolate this logic to an unknown, but practical possibility.

And for that I apologize.

Nevertheless….

I can’t help but remember (while reading this post on the definition of value) standing with my hands on my hips pondering a Black, sun-baked, clear coat peeling (new interior though), 1977 GTB on that beautiful August morning.

I’d just sold my house and had $135K cash sitting in the bank. “I can buy this car”, I said to myself. “I can”, I repeated it several times, “I can, I can, I can”, as if to convince myself that my wife would understand me bringing this derelict looking car home, for a mere 15% of our net worth.

I even rationalized on that bright beautiful day in 1988, trying to convince myself beyond all logic by saying out loud to the dealer at A.J. Risley, in Sherman Oaks, CA., “Ya know, Enzo died yesterday. I’ll bet the value of this car will go through the roof”.

I passed on that car. I just couldn’t see the rational in paying $17,000.00 for a car that desperately needed a paint job that would probably (at that time) cost about $5K.

In the year that followed, the definition of value changed considerably in the Ferrari world. So much so, in fact, that it took another 18 years before I finally decided to take the plunge.

And yes, my wife is still kicking me in the A$$! (pun intended).

I should’ve bought the first one. Then again, hindsight (as they say) is: 20/20.

 

You are right, that is the MARKET value of your car. It's worth what someone will pay.

I hear what you are saying, but I don't agree. The value the car has to its owner is the amount of money it would take to buy it from him. Let's say, using your example, that my car was in the family since new and was given to me by a relative and had a lot of sentimental value. I wouldn't sell it for $25K. Would I sell it? Sure, if someone offered enough money I probably would. If 308s went up in value in a few years and someone offered me the right price, say, $100,000, I would take it. (Don't laugh, that's where Dinos are now and nobody would have imagined that 10 years ago). That is the value of the car to me. I think a lot of people are in that place. My car isn't so much sentimental as "customized" to the way I want it and it took a certain amount of money and time to get it there, so the car has value TO ME. The market value of my car might only be $30K but I couldn't replace it with $30K very easily.

Anyone who thinks of a car as an investment is on very shaky ground!

They command top dollar! True 99+ point cars are rare and are not going to be had for $30K! Especially in 5 years.

Just my opinion.

Birdman

 

The restoration is still cheaper than a Kennedy-style hookers-and-drugs bender, and at least Matt will have a nice Ferrari at the end of it to show rather than a broken marriage and a burning sensation that just will not go away...

 

Not to be a naysayer, because I think it is an interesting concept and who on this site (me included) would not want a factory restored car. I received the survey as well. I got the impression Ferrari is looking for people willing to spend $$$$ on restoring $1M+ historic cars such as an old 250 GT race car that's been running around the historic circuit. I really don't think Ferrari will be interested in 3X8 road car resto's IMHO.

No offense to Matteo. If it does happen I think you will have one of the best 308 in the country.

 

Personally I can't believe there are so many people knocking this idea. How can any of you pass judgement until the estimate comes in (or at all for that matter)?

Since when has anything about a Ferrari made sense fiscally? I already have more money in my 308 than it'll ever be worth and I can't see how any of you could be MUCH different. Unless you stole your car, don't maintain it, nothing breaks, or it's a beater like mine WAS, you will be upside down or at best, even in pretty short order.

Does it make sense for Matt to want to do this? Who cares!!! You're not paying for it so shut up and wait for the estimate. For those who keep thinking the program is a figment of his imagination do a little research (hint:look at the owner's site). Before the survey ever came out I got a nice book in the mail explaining the whole program.

 

I hear what your saying. all i'm saying is this is not a true value. this is a made up value and has no importance. what you want for your car has no effect on the real value. my point is, if you are not willing to sell your car for a reasonable sum, it has no value. you cannot covert it to cash because you are not willing to sell it. hence, it has no value to you beyond owning it. when i say value i mean monetary value. your car has no monetary value to you if you are not willing to sell it. in fact, it is a liability.

yes, a top car could not be had for 30k but they could be had for less than matt paid for his car+restoration by the factory. i think more desireable too.

 

I think the factory restoration of any Ferrari is a nice idea, but not one that I would pursue. To me, having a perfectionist basically improve what the factory built to a standard much higher than the original kind of deceives the public about the brand. If you go to a car show in 40 or 50 years (assuming they are still around) and see my car which has not been restored but may still be in very good near factory condition next to a 'factory restored' 308 previously owned by Matt Lemus you might think mine is a real beater. The fact that the cars originally might not even be perfect (panel fit etc...) is part of the brand and that should not be 'corrected' to be considered 'restored'. If someone took the same approach to 'restoring' the old cathedrals of Europe we would see no imperfections in the glass and they would start to become more like modern buildings. But I am curious as to what the factory will quote.
BT

 

I think we've concluded that "factory restoration" (for competition cars and for street cars old enough to drink) is real enough.

I suspect the estimate will come in at somewhere north of the price of a new 430.

But then, being an old curmudgeon myself, I can imagine customers who don't like the "new fangled computer cars" and would rather have a "like new" 308 at any price.

But I'm still curious what the costs would be to ship a 308 to Italy and back. Given the trucking costs across the US, and having investigated the costs of shipping a set of rims from the UK, I get a "Steven King" feeling about the price of trans-atlantic car shipping.

I also suspect that the factory will want to run a certification on a car before even giving a restoration quote.

So methinks it's "wait and see" time.

 

This whole thing reminds me of an old article by PJ O’Rourke on an Aston Martin. To paraphrase, he said the car was totally illogical. About as practical as a home zoo. But after 24 hours in his possession, he didn’t give a ****.

Most Ferraris make no “sense” in the typical meaning of the word. If Matt knows that this is something that will not yield a monetary payout, but wants to do it anyway, so what? Oh yes, he may be FOS, but we do not know that yet.

 

Unless you get sued. Then it's an asset. And assets, do have value.

 

possibly to the person sueing you. then it would have a market value to them. but if you won't sell it, i still say it has no value-to you. isn't this fun?

 

Well, it would have value to you too, depending on what other assets of value they see that you have, and may be willing to negotiate for.

Nevertheless...

Assets (personal property assets, that is) have value, regardless of their intended or expected use.

Expectations, on the other hand, (and especially unrealistic ones) can be liabilites.

It's very easy to confuse expectations and intentions, with regard to their impact on the value of property, whatever it's value. But it is still just an impact on that value, and has no real power to either create nor destroy an asset, or it's value, unless it can in fact reduce it's value to zero.

It's also very easy to confuse "cost of ownership" with "liability". While cost of ownership is generally classified as a liability, (as on a balance sheet) it can also be considered an investment if you expect the value of a personal asset (one requiring a cost to maintain) to increase. Like a rental (albeit real vs. personal) property.

The reductio: Life itself is costly to maintain. But I would hardly call life and it's abundant opportunities, a liability.

Unless of course, you believe in an ideology that requries that you forfeit your own life in the pursuit of visiting the forfeiture of life upon everyone who disbelieves in your ideology.

In which case, your life would be a liability not only to yourself, but to everyone else as well!

And for a very good example, please see the following:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BQx2Gvj2xw

That life of course, has alreay been forfeited.

(segue... redirect?)
And I wonder if Ferari would even "want" to restore that one....

 

Not that it matters but $500 for an oil change on a 308 is flat-out robbery.

 

As far as shipping cost.....I have checked for a possible trip to Europe with my car and the cost from New Orleans(my town) to Naples and back is 2500.00 plus insurance and port/registration. Don't know what it would take to transport via ground to the factory but If I was doing this I would drive it myself to complete the experience.

 

I don't think it would pass for a "certificate of originality".

The factory might want to restore it: one less abomination on the streets.
With any luck, the process might take until the owner got a clue.

In Enzo's day, did he ever take back a Ferrari from a real dweeb?

(Or maybe this is what it really looks like when someone "drives it like they stole it".)

 

The owner of that car is fortunately no longer a member of the human race.

I think his daddy probably bought it for him. Of course, his daddy stole a whole country, and robbed the UN blind too. But that's another matter.

I'm curious though; Does anyone know if a heads-up display (not necissarily in Farsi either) is available as an option in a 355?

Matt,

Maybe you could get one installed while your at it !!!

 

Guys, Matt indeed has a "Past" on this site, and it is not pretty...for the most part, I am of the "live and let live" philosophy...but obviously Matt is back in top form. He has started this thread to garner some attention, and by the looks of it, he has it. He KNOWS the quote from Ferrari will be stratospheric, and he will lament that it is just TOO crazy high a price and he will pass....but in the mean time, he gets to go on and on about the "what if's" about this possible restoration of his 308....whatever...but he WILL drag this on for as many weeks or months that he can....but the restoration will not happen, either by Ferrari or any other reputable restoration house. Nuff said.

BTW, I am not against restoring a 308, in fact I am all for it....but Matt isn't going to do it.

 

A lot of opinions and no substance........


Why don't the mods close this down until Matt gets the info?

I'm tired of all the criticism.........

 

If I could afford it, I would do it with my 81 308 GTSi (according to those in the know, the least desirable model years). I am just guessing it be north of
$100,000.00 for my car and I can't afford it.

My son had his oil changed, brakes done at time he delivered pizza, I on the hand changed my oil, did brake jobs when I was a DBA, always have, always
will.

But if $100,000.00 was not an issue I would do it. Market price is not a factor
as MY 308 is for life. But money is an factor for me, and I am trying balance
Birdmans fuseblocks vs my grandsons desire for a XBOX 360.

You've got my vote Matt.

stephen