TR - Billows of white smoke!

Is FoCF replacing it with a one-piece design (one would hope)?

 

Been away on vacation. Latest is we are using a 512M gearbox housing.

Without my asking, FofCF is crediting the hundreds of dollars in labor associated with the original JB weld attempt (another example of their great customer centric approach).

Part is on order... more later.

 

I never had any luck with the JB weld stuff to date. Good luck with the repair and I might add what a lot of good useful advise you received.

 

Rob,

If not too personal, can you give us a ballpark on what a transmission with exchange is going for these days? I think a lot of TR and Boxer owners would like to know. If not I certainlly understand.

Drew Altemara

 

Was anyone killed when the gearbox exploded?

 

I'm an Alfa guy and in our community of cheap-skates, JB-welding is commonplace, partly because the cars aren't exorbitantly expensive and also because most of us are died-in-the-wool shadetree mechanics. Never thought this would apply to Ferrari owners.

....but there you have it.

 

Yeah ... a school bus full of lawyers...

 

Not looking good. Called FofCF and the said they have opened up the gearbox and are looking things over. The found more cracks in the differential an even speculated that the car might have only been powering one wheel. (?) They found bits of metal everywhere. They have all the parts layed out and are evaluating what it will take to replace what needs replacing.

I am wondering if I should try to find a replacement transmission rather than OEM parts piecemeal.

Thoughts?

 

Didn't verell or someone post earlier that some type of aftermarket diff is available for 3000-4000$? Seems like the way to go. Each hour spent "going through the pieces" is 125$ deeper into your wallet...

 

Sounds like a big loss. Labor is a killer and you must stop the bleeding. Look into a new tranny.

 

Here are a pic of the bad housing. When still mounted on the car the only view we could see was from the inside (opposite side on this pic where the big white arrow on the left of this pic is pointing). From there we only saw the small crack that we JB Welded. When that didnt work (although the JB Weld held fine, it was just that more leaks occurred) we pulled everything. It became apparent that the problem was MUCH more than a minor crack on the inside. Not sure how the resolution will show cracks on this posting so I added grey arrows to point out the more visible cracks. If you notice the green spots, that is the dye we used to trace the cracks before pulling the housing. The green was seeping thru the wall of the housing on the right side (the JB Weld was on the left).

We have now opened the transmission as well and have inventoried the needs. Not pretty. Some fused bearings, some missing teeth, etc. Looks like my options are 1) find/buy used TR transmission 2) buy rebuilt tranny, 3) have FoCF rebuild mine.

In any case the cracked housing is being replaced with a 512M OEM one (not cheap either).

Bottom line is well over $20k...
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Rob, as an early TR owner I am reading this in disbelief. This is by far the worst issue I have ever seen "pop up" on a TR owner. I was searching around the net for you and it appears that Ferrari Service of costa mesa has a few TR parts cars with transmissions still intact. You may want to try them first to see if they have what you need. Also, why do you use the dealer and not a high quality independent reapir shop that may be able to source out parts cheaper and charge less for labor?

 

At this point it is too late to switch horses in mid-stream. The parts are strewn all over the shop. Yes, there is a premium to be paid using FofCF, but I have had nothing but great service and personal attention. They are quick to point out alternatives that might cost less. They have been willing to discount (yes discount). They will warranty their work (parts and labor).

I am new to the Ferrari world. As I develop more knowledge and confidence in alternate solutions I am sure I will consider them. I appreciate all the help and advice I receive sharing fchatters like you.

Threads like this ...

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15803

... that scare me away from independents.

 

When I went to pick it up it just came apart in my hand!
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Have they given you a cost breakdown of what it is going to take to fix it. 20k just seems insane for fixing this problem. Were there any telltale signs that this was happening or did this just break?

 

Sounds like this was an internal problem that resulted in the cracked case. Fused bearings sounds like a lubrication problem (read as: lack of lubrication). Perhaps the last service person that signed off on the lubrication level holds some liability here.

 

The 20-25K is not just for the diff case, it's the tranny rebuild too...

 

Hi Rob,

I have just been through this on a BB512.

I think I can offer some experience if you want it.

In my case the bolt holding the ring gear let go, maybe caused by a cracked differential, and took the side cover with it. The ring and pinion were gone, the differential was cracked, the side cover was cracked, the gears were black (probably from running out of oil sometime during its prior ownership). However the case was good. A TR case would not fit the 512BB because the oil pickup and passages are not the same despite what some other opinions are.

The short of it was that we shipped the 512BB transmission to Rod Drew in CA, found a doner TR transmission, put the parts from the TR transmission in the Boxer case, put in the stronger differential, new syncros, bearings, etc. Shipped it back to Atlanta where we rematted the transmission back with engine.

In your case I think you have two options.

One: Buy a new remanufactured TR transmission from someone like Ted Rutland and exchange what you have. One of the issues willl be that you do not have a lot to exchange so the price may be a little higher than what it has been historically. However the ring and pinion gears have value if in good shape.

Two: Buy a used case from someone like Ted, send it, along with your toasted transmission to someone like Rod Drew in CA. Buy new parts as required (new one piece differential, synchros, etc.) and assemble a good transmission.

You can continue down the path with FOCF but you may want to counsel with them the idea of option one above or having them send the transmission work out. This is real picky stuff due to the tolerances and pre-loads involved and very expensive. You do not want to have to do this again. Rod does a lot of these. I just do not know how many FOCF does.

And yes the cost will be around $15K to $20K for the transmission plus another $5K, $10K to remove the engine/transmission, split it, put it back in and probably do a major service while you are at it. Dealership or Independent, there is no way to get around this to get back on the road.

It is a hell of an expense since you will be spending close to a third of the car's value.

I can offer some experience on pricing if you like but would rather do it privately. My e-mail is [email protected] or you can call me at the office 205.391.3503. I'd be happy to share what I went through.

Sorry this happened to you. Just trying to help.

Regards,

Drew Altemara

 

Thanks for the input! A recap of how I see it now ..

1) Buy used transmission Pro: Cheapest alternative Con: No telling what the true condition is (without opening it up). Could die next week.

2) Buy rebuilt transmission Pro:Cheaper than having FofCF build it. Con: Only warranty parts - if something goes wrong still have to pay labor (major part of overall cost)

3) Have FofCF rebuild it. Pro: Guaranteed parts and labor Con:Most expensive

In any event, FofCF gets the labor at this point. Remember, the differential/diff case is a separate issue (adds to the total cost, but separate).

Of course, now that I already have the headers and exhaust off ...

 

Yikes, all this makes me just want to drive my Europa (Lotus, that is) around and only use my Ferraris for eye candy!! Good luck Rob, I hope it all gets sorted out without draining the savings account!

 

Too late for that !

 

Final resolution ... having FofCF put in a 512TR transmission (from TRutland). This is NOT gonna be cheap, but I feel this will be the best solution for the car overall. The 512 is an upgrade from the original TR transmission and it has always been my objective to have this car in A+ condition.

I think I am close to the point where I have put as much into this TR as it is worth. Close, but not quite there. If and when I decide to move to another F-car I will have absolutely no qualms selling this to another fchat member (or future fchat member) as I will be confident it is in the best condition possible.

ps - can I borrow a quick 30k from anyone

pps - I noticed that this was the Thread of the Month for August !

 

Rob,

I think that's a good choice. I looked at that transmision and would have put it in my Boxer, when the transmission went, if the oil pickups had lined up. It also has the newer differential so you should be safe there.

See you on the road, say in about a month?

Regards,

Drew

 

About a month was right. Got the word today that it should be ready at the end of next week. Once I get the final bill I will share it with everyone (misery loves company).

 

Glad you'll be up and running again!