F355 New Alternator Problem Now! Any Suggestions? | FerrariChat

F355 New Alternator Problem Now! Any Suggestions?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by AZLambo, Aug 7, 2006.

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  1. AZLambo

    AZLambo Formula Junior

    Nov 4, 2003
    511
    Phoenix, AZ
    Full Name:
    Jeff
    Ok, for those of you that have followed my alternator problems.........I removed the "new" factory fresh Nippon Denso alternator from the car, the one that would work fine (start the car....voltage would be in low 14's, then after a couple of miles of driving......voltage would settle in at 13.5, then after about 10 miles of freeway driving, the voltage would drop (over about 10 to 15 seconds) to 12 and the battery (alternator) light would come on dimly........then, a few miles later, everything would start working again, and the voltage would come back up to 13.5 and the light would go off. Then, this same scenario would happen again......over and over, with no rhyme or reason why.

    Well, since then, I have replaced the 4 gauge positive cable from the alternator to the junction block in the right side of the engine compartment. I also replaced the positive starter cable to the same junction block (didn't have to do this, but it was right there and easy to do). Also cleaned and tightened all ground cables, battery cable connections (new MT 34R Interstate battery). Also, installed a rebuilt (new voltage regulator) alternator that I had rebuilt by a recommended auto electric guy that an independent Ferrari mechanic told me about.

    Okay, after all this, I was curious to see what would happen. Started the car...voltage now reads about 14.4.....good........drove a couple of miles.....voltage now settling in at 13.5 or so..........good......get on freeway.....voltage still at 13.5.......good.......drive for a few miles.....voltage still on 13.5..........good.........drive a few more miles......voltage starts creeping UP.......to 14......to 14.5.......battery light now starts to flicker brightly........15.0...........15.5..............16.0 volts!.........holy Sh___! I pull off the freeway before my battery explodes!..........Voltage starts to go back down as I slow down and come to a stop and the traffic light. Voltage now back to 13.5 and battery light is off. Start driving home...........voltage stays at 13.5.........good.........drive for another 5 miles or so........voltage still at 13.5........drive another couple of miles..........voltage starts creeping up again (I am only doing about 45 MPH at this point) ...........14.....14.5........battery light starts flickering brightly..........15.0.........I slow down and pull into a residential area.......voltage comes back down to 13.5 and stays there as I go home at about 40 MPH.

    What could be the problem??? It seems like something "heats up" or gets "triggered" by driving about 7 miles or so and gets the alternator to go overboard (VR not regulating the voltage). Then, after slowing down, the voltage goes down and all seems okay for another 7 miles or so.

    Any ideas? I'm stumped. I called the auto electric guy and told him the above scenario. He is kind of stumped. He thinks that the sensing wire could have a problem.

    Any suggestions?
     
  2. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways
    Instead of running your alternator ground cable to the chassis, consider running it directly to your battery. Unless there is something that I'm overlooking, that should safely eliminate any "floating ground" issues.

    You have a bad ground connection somewhere that is killing your voltage regulator. I don't know if this problem is heat related, wiring related, fluid related (e.g. leaking oil), or what, but a ground directly to your battery shouldn't have a ground problem.
     
  3. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    20,037
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    You really need to also be looking at the amperage draw aswell. Something is causeing this alternator to almost full field. When you have the increase, are the cooling fans on? Is your A/C on aswell?

    One other small thing. Is the heat sheild still inplace above the alternator?

    Also check the wiring harness where it travels through the firewall to the ECU behined the passenger seat. Just move the passenger seat forward and remove the leather covered panel. Undo the 8mm nuts that hold the ECU in place undo the ECU connection. Now that it is out of the way, you can (gently) pull the harness out a bit and inspect for chaffing of the wires against the metal firewall. Check to make sure that the rubber grommet is in place.
     
  4. AZLambo

    AZLambo Formula Junior

    Nov 4, 2003
    511
    Phoenix, AZ
    Full Name:
    Jeff
    Should I run a thick 4-guage battery type cable from the negative post on the battery to the case of the alternator? I suppose I could rout one under the fibleglass panels under the car. Why would everything work fine for 7 or so miles, and then go wierd on me?...............and then...........after slowing down, go back to normal again? Would a ground come and go like that? Also, I though about checking the battery with a hydrometer to see if a cell is bad. It IS a new battery, so I doubt that I have a bad cell.........but even if I did, would a bad battery cell make the alternator act like this........when it works and then not?
     
  5. AZLambo

    AZLambo Formula Junior

    Nov 4, 2003
    511
    Phoenix, AZ
    Full Name:
    Jeff
    The A/C and all other accessories were off when I did this last drive. The left cooling fan does come on and go off (as usual), but when it did, the voltage on the system did not vary. When the cooling fan came on, the voltage stayed the same as it was, and when the cooling fan went off, the voltage stayed the same as it was.

    I did not notice any "heat shield" above the alternator when I replaced it.
    I suppose I could fabricate one. What material can I use?

    Does anyone have a photo or schematic of this heat shield around the alternator?
     
  6. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
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    Mr. Sideways
    #6 No Doubt, Aug 7, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  7. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    20,037
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    Umm..That would be the A/c compressor. The Heat sheild for the alternator is attached to the oil tank and kinda curves around.

    Please have another look at my previous post, I added a few things to it, Possiable you were writing you response at the time.
     
  8. AZLambo

    AZLambo Formula Junior

    Nov 4, 2003
    511
    Phoenix, AZ
    Full Name:
    Jeff
    That schematic is not of my '95 F355, and that component doesn't look like my alternator.....it looks too long. Is that schematic of a 348? I do not have that "adjustable" slotted bracket for tensioning the belt.......I have an adjustment bolt on a tensioning pulley.
     
  9. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways
    I'm embarassed! Sorry about that (fixed it above, though). Must have clicked on the wrong link.
     
  10. AZLambo

    AZLambo Formula Junior

    Nov 4, 2003
    511
    Phoenix, AZ
    Full Name:
    Jeff
    Yeah, that does look like an A/C compressor. What can I use for a heat shield? .040 or .063 aluminum maybe? Also, would not having a heat shield cause this "7-mile" then "all hell breaks loose" thing I'm experiencing? I guess after driving 7 miles, the heat gets to the "breaking point"? :-(

    TBA, what do you think about the direct ground cable idea that No Doubt has? Also, what do you guys think about checking for a bad battery cell?

    How do I check the amperage while I'm driving the car? How do I check it when I'm not driving the car? Since this problem is "intermittant", won't a test of anything show up "good"?
     
  11. AZLambo

    AZLambo Formula Junior

    Nov 4, 2003
    511
    Phoenix, AZ
    Full Name:
    Jeff
    I can't see the heat shield in your schematic (the one you fixed). Am I blind?
     
  12. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways
    I don't see the heat shield or the alternator ground strap.
     
  13. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways
    #13 No Doubt, Aug 7, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here's the alternator schematic for the 1996+ Motronic 5.2 355's, note that the alternator ground strap is part #63, easily identifiable on the diagram (unlike on your 1995 355 alternator schematic):
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  14. AZLambo

    AZLambo Formula Junior

    Nov 4, 2003
    511
    Phoenix, AZ
    Full Name:
    Jeff
    I see the ground strap....which I have on my car. I will do the "direct to the battery negative post" thing that you suggest. I will also fabricate a heat shield of some sort. (I don't see it on your schematic, by the way). Is the heat shield an original Ferrari part, a later "fix it" Ferrari part, or do people fabricate their own?

    I will also check the ECU behind the passenger seat that TBAKowsky suggested. Anything else that could cause this "intermittant" problem?
     
  15. wolftalk

    wolftalk Formula Junior

    Jan 27, 2004
    367
    san franciso area
    Full Name:
    phil
    is this thing a 4 wire alternator? In particular, is there a S input wire to the alternator for remote voltage sensing?

    if so, I'd be looking really hard for where the non-alternator end of that wire is, as well as at any connectors along the way.

    One test would be to strap the S input on the alternator to the b+ cable at the alternator and see if the fluctuation disappears.
     
  16. AZLambo

    AZLambo Formula Junior

    Nov 4, 2003
    511
    Phoenix, AZ
    Full Name:
    Jeff
    Yes, it is a four-wire alternator: B+ (4-guage battery cable), then a 3-wire
    plug. I assume IG (Ignition) , S (Sensing) , and L (battery light).

    Would splicing in the S wire to the B+ wire "fry" the S wire?
    How do I tell which of the three smaller wires is the S wire?
     
  17. wolftalk

    wolftalk Formula Junior

    Jan 27, 2004
    367
    san franciso area
    Full Name:
    phil
    depends on how the pins are arranged in the plug. If they are not in a line, they should be like this (looking at the alternator socket):

    L IG
    | |
    __
    S

    in other words, the S terminal is the one that is oriented differently from the other two. If the pins are in a line, never mind.

    referring to you newer thread, the best approach is to run the extra wires to the cabin so you can probe them with a voltmeter when the problem starts. How easy/hard that is depends on what you'd need to do to tap onto the wires at the alternator connector.
     

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