About MS's skills...

Even with a car that is now slower than the Ferrari, Alonso still seems to get it up there in the end and collect points. He's cleaner, more consistent and makes less errors that MS ever did. MS also seems to do better when he has a superior car as would most top drivers. I seriously doubt that in equal cars MS would win. Those 3 arse kickings as you put it were helped along by the FIA in my opinion but that's another subject altogether. This past race, tires or no tires Michael was out performed by Alonso. He came from the rear of the field passed everyone including Michael and was forced out when his team made a mistake. MS also came up through the field but went off once and retired after touching another car.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing Alonso in a non-dominant car for that reason. It would be funny if Renault still had the best car in '07 but with Fisi and Franck M. putzing them around while Kimi, Michael and Alonso duke it out in relatively equal machinery.

 

With me, yes, I question his track record of on-track demeanor, but mainly, he simply has not had a lot of competition, be it driver, car or team, for the last 6-7 years, save for 1 or possibly 2 drivers per season.

But you look at the seasons prior to about 1994, and there were 5-6-8 drivers capable of going to the point and winning - seriously. 5-6-8 drivers that, if they won, we would not at all be surprised. 70's that was especially true, and 80's it was also very true - IF the cars would last. Last year, how many times did Kimi blow up ? And he was arguably the 3rd best driver.

Today, we talk of 3, and only 3, that are serious threats to winning week in and week out.

This past weekend very clearly bore that out.

 

So, because Jackie Stewart (known the world over for a loud mouth) makes one off-the-cuff comment, it is now set in stone that Michael is of questionable talent. Of course.... How is this rational to anyone? Did JS make this comment multiple times? Have other drivers expressed a similar sentiment (multiple times)? When did JS make this comment anyway? ie, was it right after the Monaco incident or another similar situation?

And, the card constantly gets played that Michael is preventing Ferrari from signing anyone competitive. Please, show citations from now on when expressing such an opinion. A single quote demonstrating this will suffice.... Oh, wait, you don't have any quote showing this to be the case?... you mean you're just speculating (irrationally). Last I checked, JT and LdM ran the show. MS certainly has pull, but Montezemolo, who keep in mind ran the F1 team in the late 70s, is not going to set Ferrari for a post-Schumacher collapse.

 

What a wealth of information! Thank you gentlemen. I could have Googled for weeks and not had so much to chew and digest.

 

I've long been surprised at the number of Schumi doubters. I wonder how long some of you have been following F1. I've been an F1 fan long before Michael came along - since the days of Lauda's battles with James Hunt, Mario Andretti et.al. And without exception, Schumacher is the most consistent driver I have ever seen, better even than Prost. Throughout his long career he was always fast - Ive yet to see signs of him slowing down due to old age. Many of you speak of him as being error prone. I cannot imagine how that can be true - the guy has driven at or near the limit for damn near 15 years and frankly I'm amazed at how few errors he makes given his balls out style of driving.

Schumacher IS the rainmaster. While Alonso revealed for the first time this weekend his driving skills in the wet, Schumacher has done far more impressive wet drives in the past. 1996 in Spain comes to mind. I remember Grand Prix legend Stirling Moss being stunned by that performance.

Alonso's Hungary drive while impressive was helped by the fact that he had a lot more grip than the Bridgestone runners. Bring on the 1 tire manufacturer rule (and lets hope Michael keeps driving) and I'm sure the pretenders will be put in their proper places.

 

LOL

 

I have been following F1 for over 30 years. My dad took me to the Watkins Glen races in the early 1970s. I attend at least one Grand Prix a year and watch every one on TV. I think I am fairly knowledgable about the sport.

I will not deny Schumacher's talent, his statistical success, his consistency, or his longevity at the very top of the sport. It is his tactics and his resilience under pressure that I question. I do not think he is the greatest driver ever, though he certainly has to be in the top 3. I had a very strong enthusiasm for his talent very early in his career, however his behavior and antics since then have cooled my support. I am quite certain I am not the only one who feels that way. I also suspect that a lot of the apologists here are behaving so only because he drives for Ferrari.

 

Ditto

Followed F1 for over 25 years.

 

Well maybe that answers it. Schumi's infamous debacles in 1994, 1997, & 2006 lost him a lot of fans. I guess in judging Schumi as a driver as with any other, I do so based only on observed skill/talent, setting aside the personal aspects - the imperfections if you will. What we are left with is a pretty formidable driving phenomenon, probably the best ever.

I am watching Fernando Alonso now. While I am turned off by his temperament, there is no doubting the talent & the speed. But he has to do what he is doing now for the next 10 or so years before I'd classify him Michael's equal.

 

I've been following F1 since about 89 so that's 17 years now. I don't really know why i'm not a big MS fan but i do not deny his skill. I just think he's overrated regardless of all the records.

 

He always says that. If he meant it, Massa wouldn't be in the second car right now.

 

...but behind Heikki Kovalainen (Race of champions).....





(sorry I just had to remark this)

 

period.

 

If that were true, Kimi would already be in the car. Several F1 periodicals have been reporting that MS has actively lobbied against Kimi's signing behind the scene.

Massa is no threat to MS and both of them know it.

 

Right on. Heikki Kovalainen, the man who beat MS with his own weapon, a Ferrari.

 

Winning that competition with various much slower cars is not the same as repeating it in F1.

 

Certainly true and it remains to be seen how well he is going to do in F1.

But the thing that amazed me, was that he beat Michael Schumacher in a 360. Of all the vehicles they had at the event, he beats him in a car I'm sure Michael has done countless laps around Fiorano leading up to the event.

OTOH Massa did phenomanely well at that event too and we know after Hungary where to put him in the pecking order of things.

 

hehe.. i meant in an F1 car

 

There is a little something called a contract that has prevented KR from leaving McLaren until 2007. Every publication I have read has indicated that Kimi would be welcomed to Ferrari by Michael and Jean Todt. Schumacher's retirement may be from driving, but not necessarily from Ferrari. It is in Ferrari's best interest to sign a potential world champion as a driver, and the best one at this time is Kimi. So if Schumacher stays on in some capacity at Ferrari, he will still want to be part of a winning team.

 

That maybe so but judging from history, if MS stays in the car Kimi will not be in the other car. For whatever reason MS has never had an equal teammate. To have one as dangerous as Kimi at this point is something I would see MS never allowing. I think, and this is just speculation on my part, that Ferrari signed Kimi to that pre-contract just in case MS retired. I'm feeling that with the car being strong and Michael winning again he has either choosen not to retire or put off making the descision till later (Monza) which caused Kimi's pre-contract to expire. There were several other drivers that could have taken the second seat at Ferrari this year but they wanted an MS friendly driver. It's interesting how they didn't even pick a younger driver such as Piquet Jr, Rosberg or Hekki that might be a threat to MS..............

 

That's one possible explanation for why the Scuderia is so laid back about apointing a driver.

Another explanation is, that they have already confirmed Kimi and have nothing to worry about. I'd rather believe that scenario.

 

SEVEN TIME WORLD CHAMPION!

... THIS DISCUSSION IS OVER...

 

Speak when you have something important to contribute, otherwise shut your pie hole.

 

hehe