Question for Terry about Porsche Turbo

Geez Dale Here i thought you were stuck in the 60's....

The early 80' Turbo's were a handfull. They had a ON / OFF boost range that could snap your neck or put you completly looking the wrong way as they would rise through the spool then WHAMMO

The Newer T's were less abrupt

 

You should just drive one and decide for yourself, Dale!

Of course, I can understand not wanting to hassle a seller if you're uncertain.

 

I got myself an 87 lagoon green carrera recently, and I've been surprised by how usable and fun to drive it is (especially contrasted against my 330GT). It's made me look at 79-88 turbos too (there's a nougat/cashmere one in panorama that sounds especially nice if you want something other than red/white/black or silver)
I doubt they will ever ferociously appreciate in value, but they shouldn't lose much either as long as they are maintained. Its the same sort of driver-invoved car as the ferrari, but its more replaceable, doesn't overheat, and is well-supported in terms of parts/service.

 

In the latest Sports Car Market Mag, there is an article where they talked about 930s going up in value again. These cars even seemed to have risen in value the last couple of years may increase further down the road. However, if you are looking at a car purely as an investment, there may be other investments out there with better upside potential. On the other hand, if you are looking at a car for a combination of driving enjoyment and looks while minimizing overall costs (if not making some $), then I suggest that you drive the 930 to see if you like it.

The 930 was my dream car in the late 70s to 80s. I owned about 6 911s before I bought my 87 930 in 2000. Although I will always have a "soft spot" for the 930s for nostalgic reasons, I was disappointed when I finally owned one. The turbo kick was fun but that was about it. In stock form, the car heavily understeered, the gearing didn't match the engine's power/torque curve, and the turbo lag affected the ease of controlling the car with the throttle. For US roads, the 930's power was not usable unless you keep it in second gear all the time. Also, since I bought a cab, the chassis flex was too much for me to live with.

When I was in a position to buy a 328, I traded the 930 and did not look back. Whether for track or sporty street driving, I realize that I appreciate much more mid-engine balance, excellent feel and quick responsiveness as opposed to the straight line feel of torque i.e. turbo spooling up. As it gets closer to its limits, the car's balance and responsiveness is more valuable most especially at the track.

I have since driven a 76 and 79 930 (I may also look to try a 5 speed 89 930). While I enjoyed the turbo kick and the coupe chassis is much more solid as expected, my old 328 and the recently-purchased Euro QV still provided me better feedback and response if not outright speed.

In summary, the 930 has awesome looks and great history (with plenty of nostalgia for me). However, driving it is not as enjoyable to me as some of the Ferraris of the same era. I hope this helps...

PS The production numbers are relatively high, which would limit the price increase potential.

 

Dale,

The 930 drives like an old race car. There are no real creature comforts, it's somewhat stubborn, requires attention, and likes to wind through the gears to get you in trouble. If that's the experience you are looking for then you will enjoy this car more than anything else at this price point. It's not a dial the cell phone, drink coffee, and listen to the radio kind of car.

 

Dale,


I have driven several 930s and I simply do not like them. This from a certified P-car nut.

Why dont I like them? The 4 speed transmission coupled with a low compression ratio engine that runs relatively high boost in a single turbo, a combination that spells FRUSTRATION with a capital F.

The cars are either dog slow off boost.... or going crazy fast on boost. There is no in between. Below 4000 rpm, a 911SC is a faster car with far better throttle response. From 4000 rpm on.... the turbo finally spools up and the acceleration is like getting hit with a baseball bat in the back. Now, with a close ratio 6 speed transmission this could all be fine and dandy as you could row through the gears in such a manner as to always keep the thing on boost. But with the 4 speed transmission geared for top end as they were.... every time you shift the turbo spool down.

So, its nail the throttle.... wait.....wait.... wait.... BANG!!!! ZOOOOOOOM!!!!! instantly to red line, SHIFT.... wait.....wait.....wait. ZOOOOM again. The damn things are ALWAYS off boost. The power just is never there when you really need or want it.

I MUCH prefer the early MFI 911S cars. They weigh 600-700 pounds less and offer a far better driving experience with throttle response that is INSTANTANEOUS.

You could be right about future values from an investment standpoint, but I have my doubts. There are lots of 930s out there. Also, guys who get into Porsches tend to get seriously involved in driving them and this leads to the track. On the track, a stock 930 is something of a pig. The rear weight bias is worse, they are heavier overall and they simply are not as much fun to drive nor will they give you the lap times a lightweight normally aspirated car will.

If you really want a 930, buy a terrible one. You should be able to get one for well under $20K. Then figure to spend $40K making it good. Step one: G50 transmission conversion! Step two: multi turbos with a huge intercooler. Step Three: serious suspension mods. Do all this (or buy a car with it all already done... there are lots of 930s so modified out there) and you will have a great car.

Or quit dicking around and just step up to a Daytona, you know its what you have wanted anyhow.




Terry

 

i just got out from a drive in my 87 modded 930 turbo.

anyone who is not weak kneed after driving one is numb...it is the most electrifing machine to drive that i have ever owned. it has enough of the creature comforts needed but not over the top to the point that the experience is softened.

w/ proper mods, lag is only a problem going from off idle to full throttle...and then there is the bang that terry describes in his post. once on the gas , each upshift is linear in the boost delivery...it is just a sustained wicked rush that seems to get harder w/ each gear!!!!!

every time i consider selling my car...i drive it and decide to hold it! i have owned 3 and this time, i think i will keep it...no sale!

 

Hi Dale.....!!

930's are a polarizing vehicle.

I love them to death....especially slantnoses. The driving experience is second to none IMHO and far better than the 1990 TR I just drove this morning. It is a more usable vehicle than any F-car in terms of luggage space, fuel economy, repair costs, parts availability, creature comforts and being able to park it anywhere without worrying about it.

What everyone here has said about the way they drive is true......but must be explained in order for a newbie to understand. If you take the time to learn how to drive the car however, and don't dismiss it first hand, you'll be rewarded by something that very few cars today can still match.

I have a 1986 factory slantnose in my inventory....it has been modded as follows.......964 cams, K27 turbo, Borla exhaust, 1.0 bar spring....and it produces a peaky 400 HP from 4,500 RPM onward to the 6,800 RPM redline. When the boost comes on it's like the space shuttle has lifted off and only a few other cars out there can give you such a visceral stomach wrapped around your spine and your eyeballs pushed into the back of their sockets feeling under full acceleration.

The vehicle IMHO is not short on low end power, it's just that the difference between no boost and 1.0 bar is night and day, there is no other way to describe it. You can drive it around town like a docile sedan in 2nd gear....or do what I do and drive in the city at 50 kmh (the posted limit) in 1st gear at 4,000 rpm.

I'd run it against anything out there today under full boost at the 2-3 shift......WOOHOO !!!
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that is a good summary. my car makes approx 500 hp and is an animal. w/ a modded car, even the gear spacing on the 4 speed is nice. 3rd and 4th gear is also a crazy experience as you watch the speedo wrap past the 170 mph mark!!!

 

MODS.


That is the key to the success you guys speak of. A modded 930 is a whole different ball game. There are lots of things that can be done to give the cars some boost at lower revs and a broader torque curve.

Why are such mods so prolific? Why do you see such a large % of 930s in the wild that have been modded? Because the stock cars were pretty damn TERRIBLE in the practicality of their power delivery.

My comments are directed really at a stock 930. Now if you want to start talking about a Ruf Yellowbird replica or some such, thats an entirely different ball game and the sky is the limit. I know guys having a blast driving what amounts to 935s with nice paint and interiors. THAT is a car that will demand and keep your attention!




Terry

 

That is an awesome looking car. Even the LM look wheels which are my favorite.

Dale, just buy that one, man!

 

930s are my favorite P-cars of all time, although not a big fan of the slant-nose look.

The driving experience is incredible when some "tasteful" mods are performed.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=207148638&deal er_id=58253814&car_year=1989&mod_bookmark_id=null&search_type=both&num _records=25&make=POR&distance=25&model=&address=72764&certified=&advan ced=&max_price=&bkms=1155565051450&min_price=&end_year=2007&start_year =1981&lang=en&cardist=5

 

Actually Terry......the car I was referring to is peakier and has more turbo lag than a stock 930......a stock car gets boost at 3,500.....I don't get it until 4,500......but when I get it.......it's like nothing else !! You have to drive it "much" differently than what you are used to.....like in 1st gear at 4,000 RPM around town for example.......if you need to pass, you just floor it an it's over baby !!!

Dale......

I have sold over 1,200 high end sports and luxury cars since 1989........it's 2006 and I am ranting and raving about a 20 year old 930........I have driven pretty much everything except maybe an Ezno, F50 and a Veyron IIRC......that alone speaks volumes.....don't yah think ?

 

My car does have mods that were done before I ever drove it so my experience is with ~400hp and the G50 gearbox. The only gear I ever wait on boost is 1st. Then it's just bam, bam, bam through the gears. I also had a 1969 911S like Terry recommends, it was a great car and I don't think I could choose between the 2 if I still had it. Both cars provide different experiences.

 

Hey Doc - I read this again yesterday... recommend you hmm and haw over it, as well
http://www.pelicanparts.com/911/technical_specs/911_guthrie_faq.htm

 

The trick to the 930 is to keep in on boost always thats where the fun is at above 3000rpm, you'll always have massive power on demand in an instant, most 911s are gutless anyway below 3000 as well. This is why the early ones are not a good in town car when you are stuck in traffic from light to light but on the open road they are in there element.

Early 930s are rare in fact, from 75-77 they brought in less than 500 a year and 500 went to the rest of the world each year as well. Early 930s are also very light at around 2600lbs so they are very tossable and nimble much more so than say a Ferrari 328.

They are a real hot rod, after having the power of a 930 I could never go back to a regular 911, they also have rear suspension tweaks that make them more stable at speed and have less squat on acceleration, the wide body and wider track make them much more stable at speed as well compared to a standard 911, thee 930 is not for everyone but if you enjoy lots of power in a light car with nimble handling they are hard to beat for the $$

 

So Dale......."what yah gonna do when they come for you ?"..............

 

That was my mistake-I drove a 930 with mild mods (1 bar spring/exhaust mods) and after that driving my 911 was never the same....