308 computer chips

Rob as far as I know the 308 use a bosch mechanical style FI that can't be chipped.I think you can only chip 348 and onwards but others here will correct me if I'm wrong

 

You say the car is 22 years old, so that makes it an '84? Both the QV and 2 valve cars used the Digiplex electronic ignition moduals. AFAIK, those units cannot be "chipped." They are not "intelligent" control units and are not programmable. So, unless you change the entire electronic ignition system over to something like an Electromotive unit, you are not going to be able to change any of the operating parameters of your 308. And Maurice is right -- because of the Bosch mechanical FI, merely changing the ignition will do nothing significant, as you can't control the fuel injection electronically anyway. That upgrade of FI system is a major project costwise.

 

From your location, I suspect your car is a Euro model.

The Digiplex curves for the Euros were fairly decent by '84. It isn't clear that there is much to be gained by replacing a Euro ignition system with an Electromotive.
(Different story for the US cars tho.)

The K-Jetronic on the Euros is already tuned for performance, unlike the US spec K-Jettronic systems.

Bottom line is the Euro spec cars already deliver 15 -20 hp more than their US spec counterparts.

Altho at some point the Swiss adopted emissions legislation that caused the Swiss cars to be set up pretty much like the US spec. cars. Do you have one of them?

 

The classic muscle cars were carb'd. Re-chipping tends to be a Japanese car thing, where the engine management is fully computerized. (Most of the new cars are that way now, but it's still the japanese performance cars that have the market volume to make aftermarket chips worth developing.)

The only thing that will beat a Skyline GTR at the stoplight grand prix is another (more heavily modded) Skyline GTR.

Of course, if you want 700 HP out of 2 litres, you could ask Peugeot if they're parting out any of the rallye 307s that Marcus wadded up over the last couple of years. The anti-lag might be just a smidge conspicuous, though.

Or, if you don't mind the RHD, you could get a 400 pony EVO FQ400 out of England.

Or just mod up your own Skyline. It should only cost about two or three times the price of your 308.

 

How are these two systems different exactly? I didn't think there was any way to "tune" them.

 

I don't know how but Qv London do a modified fuel injection metering head and adjustable fuel pressure regulator

 

Indeed they do - the standard unit is a bit of a one-trick pony as I understand it. The QV setup is supposed to provide better control over the mixture through the rev range.

I.

 

On both the Euro & US systems the only adjustment is the mixture screw inside the fuel distributor.

Euro K-Jetronic is a pure mechanical system.

US K-Jetronic w/lambda system is designed to work with the catalytic converters. Lambda means it is a closed-loop system that gets feedback from 02 sensors in each exhaust and small dedicated electronic boxes that process the signals and control the fuel distributor. If your system has the Slowdown 1-4 & Slowdown 4-8 lights, it has the lambda feedback system.

I believe that all 328s had the K-jet/lambda system, but haven't really researched this.

 

All USA K-jet have the frequency valve feedback. So do CH, but not on Euros I believe.

As much as I believe disagreeing with Verell is tantamount to heresy and cause for getting your pp whacked, I'm going out on a limb and say actually that neither the Euro K-jet nor the US K-jet were really tuned for performance, but rather more accurately said tuned for emissions and REALLY tuned for emissions.

The differences in output between the two engines, Euro and US, were mainly down to other things. For instance, the 3.2 engine with which I am most familiar had a difference of only 10 hp which was probably more a function of the lower US compression ratio and US exhaust system - the Euro being a true twin system ( taking advantage of the flat crankshaft) where the US joined into a single catalytic converter.

best

 

I still have the Ferrari (traded the Mondial for a carbed 308), but for the track and autocross, especially tracks like Pocono and Watkins Glen, I bought a used Corvette Z06. With minor mods, I'm putting down around 430 - 440 hp in a lightweight car. Parts are cheap, anyone can work on it, and there are literally hundreds of mods available to get better performance if I really want it, at relatively little cost. No more issues about those high HP cars blowing by me on the track. It's the other way around now. But I'm sticking with the F-car for pure driving enjoyment on the highways and byways.

 

Color me jealous. Amen about the Ferrari... and the Z06 being the better Pocono/Glen runner. See you at the Glen in early September?

 

Will be there! Just got my new slicks mounted on the spare rims and I'm ready to go out there and some fun. Are you staying at the Radisson? I'm arriving Thursday evening. Maybe we can do dinner.

 

Slicks too!!! HOLY SMOKES you caused the hair on the back of my neck to stand up!

Ditto Radisson, arriving Thursday mid-afternoon with wife. Will PM you my cell #. Man that Z06 must rock at the Glen!

 

I have always thought that the slowdown lights were a temp warning only and had nothing to do with the O2 sensor.
Mine (like all US single cat 308's) has one O2 sensor and what I believe to be a thermal probe. They both mount on my Cat - the O2 in front before the exhaust enters it (logically) and the thermal probe is at the other end to keep an eye on the heat issue.

 

On my US 84, the slow down light was connected to a temp sensor, with no connection to the FI system as far as I could tell....just power and a ground.

 

There are plenty of ways to pull more hp out of you 308 and plenty of threads explaining them with you search. Mine for example was putting out about 440 rwhp and is under 3000lb last year....I do believe a Z06 would have quite a hard time dealing with it, at least they do at the autocrosses I've been to

Next year when it rolls out again it should be closer to 600rwhp. There is plenty of power to be had...you just can't get it with a "chip".....unless the chip comes inside your new programable EFI system, since trash caning the CIS and converting to EFI is good for 20-30hp.

 

On K-Lambda systems, the "connection" is chemical. If the FI system is running too rich, the cats will get overly hot, which will (with a correctly working sensor module) light up the "slow down" lamp.

I think later cars had feedback to the engine management to provide a "limp home" mode by shutting down or leaning back the offending bank -- but I don't have schematics to verify that.

 

Yes. My point was that no action will occur in the FI system...it only promts the driver to "slow down", reducing the mass flow through the cat and hopefully thereby reducing the temp. The FI system also runs a bit leaner at lower throttle positions, which although increasing the exhaust gas temp at the engine, it reduces the hydrocarbons gong to the cat and should result in a net temp reduction at the cat.

 

I don't mind admitting that there are fairly wide gaps in some of my knowledge. Performance modifications being a big one. I haven't gotten involved in any serious performance mods to the 3x8s, altho I watch the threads, so feel free to correct me.

I stand corrected on how the slowdown lights are actuated. I haven't had to deal with a slowdown light problem, but have studied how the lambda circuit feeds back. Somehow I got the miss-impression that it was the same module that got involved in both.

The QV's Euro K-Jet is essentially a constand A/F ratio system, so you can easily adjust the mixture for performance. I haven't taken a look at the 3.2 Euro system, so don't know how it differs from the Euro QV system. The systems with lambda feedback are clearly heavily optimized for controlling emissions.

However, the K-Jet system appears to significantly restrict the airflow. mk e is right, there have been several people who have significantly improved the hp out of their 328 & QV engines by either replacing it with Webers, or by going to a tru electronic injection system.

 

Actually, now that I think about it, there *is* a feedback from the cat temp module (aka CCU) to the EFI (on the 328, at least): its function is to keep the system in open loop until the exhaust reaches 300C, where the lambda sensor will operate, as measured by the cat thermocouple. At 850C a direct line from the CCU to the "slow down" lamp flashes the light, and it's supposed to light up steady at 900C.

The lambda sensor is a separate connection to the Bosch ECU that controls the frequency valve -- a valve that reduces control pressure. By varying the duty cycle of the valve, the control pressure is modified, tweaking the amount of fuel delivered for a given airflow. This is independent of the control pressure regulator which varies control pressure based on warm-up temperatures from the "thermo-time sensor". There's also a manifold pressure link to the "warm-up regulator".

By the 328, the basic CIS had been augmented and tweaked until it begins to resemble something from Rube Goldberg.

The airflow restriction comes from that big plate in the intake to measure airflow. That plate exists both in the Lambda and non-Lambda versions of CIS. (Early L-Jet systems had a flapping door AFM that similarly restricted intake.)

But remember that when these systems were designed, back between 1979 and 1985, a state-of-the-art desktop computer was an 8088 (or an 8008), and very few microprocessors would withstand an automotive environment.

There were no MAFs or M32R processors. So the mechanical solution was more reliable for the technology of the day.

But, with no OBD, if it ever breaks, even ${DIETY} can't fix it easily.