Slow Window Fix - Circuit Description

I would be interested to know who has been asking you questions about this. Bric a Brac Jack has gone through the trouble to design and manufacture a working fix for a common problem that you describe. If you need to be stroked for understanding how it works and even offer some improved solution then congrats. Frazier, who has made the untis for sale, has been nothing more than polite to those that want to 'expose' how his fix works. If you want to try to make it less attractive for future problem solvers, please keep at it. Personally, I wish all these explanation posts would go away. No offense, but I doubt that there are many out there who want to build the solution themselves to save $20.
BT

 

What cracks me up is how all these people can pick appart the solution AFTER it has come out. Where were these guys a year or two ago BEFORE the fix came out?

 

To be perfectly honest, I probably would have paid $100/window to Frazer. He packaged it nicely, invented the thing, and frankly, he's a brother.

They work great, they are simple to install, and he's easy to work with. I value my time, and I think he should be accordingly compensated (and profit) for his efforts.

 

Amen +1

 

Huh?
I must have missed something, since when's it been a secret how to fix this? Wasn't this circuit posted on the old Fchat?
Why are we chewing people out now for posting this... because someone's started marketing the same thing in a box? ?????

 

Thanks for the support Guys, I really appreciate that, I as not aware of a fix like this before? was there? nobody out of the 4,837 viewers spotted anything. may be some people hadn't read the full thread I started as there is explanations, diagrams on there and it is defiantly no secret on how you can DIY it.

 

By the way which car is your explanation about? there is a significant difference to where the voltage drop comes from between cars types. Have you done your home work? if you were talking about the 348 that I originally designed it for then your description is incorrect, I wont go into detail about it unless you ask, I am not here on this forum to get into arguments, I love Ferrari chat it the best thing I have got into since using the internet! oo look at me 18 posts so far, many more to come, I have been helped many times here already

 

Damn fine idea! I'll get right on it.

 

What a coincidence, I have a Ugo also. small world, I think I will go out right now and fit a couple. its raining but I don't care, now that the thought and idea has been put in my head, its all I can think about, off I go, somebody hold the umbrella for me.

 

yes, it was posted years ago. People have varying interest in what the problem is, and differing abilities to solve it.

I was interested in what the root problem was, so I took apart my 328 to see, even though my windows were fine. Some things that were said just didn't make sense ... e.g. shortening a wire a few inches is not going to make any difference, and if the problem was exclusively caused by voltage drops in undersized wire, the windows would have been unacceptably slow right from the factory.

I pretty much knew what frazer was doing, I wanted to see if/why it would work on a 328, especially since the issue of dried grease in the worm gear or other mechanical problems is very real, so bunging in a relay solution might be unnecessary...though it couldn't hurt. I'll stick to my conclusion that on a 328, passenger side is useful, drivers side is not needed. For a 308, both sides will help due to the location of the window switches and ground points.

I'll also admit I don't like black boxes, at least not on a forum where people are supposed to be openly discussing things. Had frazer described what the problem was, what the solution was doing, then said he was selling a kit for people who didn't want to build the thing themselves, that would've been more palatable to me.

Having said that, if I had the window problem, and didn't feel like chasing down which connector/switch was the cause, I'd probably buy a box from frazer rather than build one myself, just because it's easier and it's not enough money to care about.

 

Hey... I just checked both your profiles and neither of you list a Ugo, nor a Yugo for that matter. I smell a rat....

 

If so, why did people not make there own boxes then? it looks like they needed a guy to make them before anybody would be interested. So you are saying that there was chat about fixing the windows in the way I attempted it? if so then fair one, and I take it all back. About the "Black box" that people are saying about and it being such a secret, my first post was on the 16th May, and on the 17th ( 10 posts later ) I explain how it works to the world. all I did that seems to earned it the mystery "Black Box" title is not go straight into detail with how to make your own, Who would?

 

If you wire is simply like this in a 348 door it may work in on direction then blow your window fuse in the other. You need a couple more bits in there. More of a slow-hand-clap than applause. Somebody already posted a sketch of a suitable design a month or two ago.


I think Frazer has done a great job on this. Sure, I knew how it worked as soon as he posted about the boxes - BUT (a big BUT) I didn't think of it. And as the price looked reasonable I chose not to post the design (read my old posts).

It will help loads IF the cause of your slow windows is a bad (hi resistance) ground.
This box will give the best results on a 348. Why? because of the crappy door connectors. I did some trials a while ago (can't remember the exact numbers).

7v @ motor as it was. ~8 second lift time.
10v at motor with door connector wired through. ~4 second lift time.
10.5v with relays to ground. ~4 second lift time.

If you do not want to wire through the door connectors the relays are the way to go. Remember though - if the feed wires are bad in the door connector the performance will still be poor.

 

I think Paul was answering a question. I thought the black box had a step up transformer in it. Always providing 12 volts to the window motor.

I disconnected my window motor from the circuit and connected 12 volts directly to the motor leads and the winow raised and lowered like it was designed to do.( yes, I swap positive and negative to get it to work up and down)

I think its great someone built a tested product and is selling it at a fair price.

NOW how about a FAIR price for a redesined Mondial A/C vent.

Charles

 

I've got a 4 second lift time, but not because of anything tht I've done. A prior owner (or even perhaps Ferrari) yanked the top right relay in the passenger fusebox...replacing said relay with a short hardwired in through a clip.

 

You know, I hope I don't stir up more poop here, because I haven't quite kept up on the controversy here, but here's a thread from the old Fchat archives:
http://70.85.40.84/~ferrari/discus/messages/256120/2175.html
If the link doesn't work, Search old Ferrarichat, "Slow window lift solution mondial"
Also from another post, "While this is the same circuit I've used to solve this problem, be aware that it has one small negative side-effect. When this system is used, and no window operation is selected, the window motors see "ground-ground". This has the effect of "locking" a DC motor, making it virtually impossible to deploy (or raise) the window with the supplied manual lift tool. Not a huge negative, but something to be aware of."--Ric Rainbolt

Not sure if that address will work correctly for everyone or not. Sat Aug 11, 2001. I assume it worked. At the same time, I know plenty would prefer a prefab solution. Just an FYI.

 

Amen.

"I'm astounded by the people who want to know the universe when it's hard enough to find your way around Chinatown." -- Woody Allen

"We all agree your theory is crazy, but is it crazy enough." -- Neils Bohr to Wolfgang Pauli

"The whole point of camp is to dethrone the serious." -- Susan Suntag

"Technological progress is like an axe in the hands of a pathological criminal." -- Albert Einstein


My apologies, i love various Zen/wisdon sayings.

An on topic, look guys, it seems to work. Period. Feel free to build your own or buy 'em. Sheesh, someone makes something that solved a LONG KNOWN Ferrari problem and it is easy to install. If you can do beter please feel free to build it and sell it.

Thank goodness Birdman does not endure all this due to his excellent fuseboxes.

 

I gave the solution months ago ..build them ....and they work fine..

thanks a lot "bric-a-brac-jack" you made live a bit easier !!!


Sharing knowledge and ideas is what its al about on ferrarichat... if you want to make a few bucks whit it its fine with me. Anyone ho wants to purchase a module go to the person ho is the inventor. If you want to build your own have fun..!!!
Its not about the money its all about the fun of building and learning......

Luuk

My post:


Two relays must work....It doesn't matter if the window is going up or down... it always has a solid ground. I bought the relays and the diodes for € 7,-

If the current goes from .... + to - .... RL 1 is activated and will give a ground where it is needed. If the current is .... - to + ..... RL 2 is activated and will give the ground.
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Perhaps I awoke on the wrong side of the bed, but upon reading this thread I could only think that we all need to stop, take a deep breath, count to 10, and start over. As a neutral, unbiased observer, I do not understand why everyone jumps on a guy who independently finds a solution to a common problem and posts his thoughts. That others before him have addressed this, and in fact are profiting from their work, is commendable. However, this should not deter others from posting what they believe to be new solutions. After all, that is why the Nobel Committee can award the same prize to two individuals who arrive at the same discovery, separately!

Furthermore, as one who has addressed this problem many times (slow windows), I find that the problem is more often mechanical in nature. If there is excessive voltage drop to the motor, then simple cleaning of contacts and grounds should resolve this. The gauge wire chosen by the Italian engineers was, in 1972 (for my Dino) correct. I suspect that it remains correct today. If there is insufficient current to the motor, it more likely is a result of high contact resistance between tab connectors or ground lugs.

Finally, to seek a solution that brings more current to a mechanically constrained motor is like flogging a tired horse. Something bad is going to happen. Spend a little time cleaning contacts and grounds, and spend a lot of time spreading the channel frame, cleaning the felt, etc. And the grease that everyone thinks gets gummed up? If it occurs (I haven’t seen it) it has long ago been pushed out of the way of the gears and not interfering. Try slowing a motor by grabbing the nylon gear in the drive housing. I defy someone to do it. No, the grease in the housing is not the problem. Try slowing the window by putting your 5th digit (pinky) on the window as it goes up. Real easy. The mechanical advantage (to slow the motor) at the felt or channel far exceeds that of the gear in the drive housing.

Jim S.

 

With other makes of cars, as the felts get bad, grease issues, and so on, take there toll on the mechanism, the windows still work well. this is because as you add resistance to the movement by the above or mechanically by hand, the motor still manages the job but with a higher current draw. The problem with the older Ferraris ( only electrically sound ones ) is that the wiring used from the factory is only good and thick enough to work the windows when they are new, (technically Yes the wiring was good and thick enough when the cars left the factory new) As age piles up on them and things get a little stiffer, the extra current that is required is staved by there thin wires and the windows slow down and when they get to the top where further current is needed they nearly stall. My module allows current to flow like a car with thicker wire. You can go down the route of making the mechanism like new but this could take time and money, I agree that fixing grease, felts and doing the connections is defiantly the way to go first but if you cant make them like new then you are still stuck.If after doing this you need to allow more current to flow, the box will help. If you went back in time and got a new 308 or similar, you would find that my box would still help. I can imagine warm wires and resistance from new even though they seem to close ok ish, I don't think it is like flogging an old horse, more like opening both doors to let the crowd in on sale day, if you don't they will try to squeeze through 1 door but find they are restricted, on all non sale days, the access is fine, i.e. when the felts etc were new, the current wasn't needed and the windows closed ok ish. I don't think anything bad will happen to your windows with the box by allowing current to flow A, because people have put 12v directly to crappy windows from a battery and they work 100% B, they have a very low time cycle, do many people sit there in there cars winding up and down for hours like kids? no only kids and you just slap them. motors will be fine!

 

it doesn't matter who invented the fix....who cares

the fact is,,,,, bric a brac "took the initiative"

he picked up the ball and ran with it

that in itself deserves credit, creativity and where the real genius lies

Monday morning quarterbacks should keep their mouths shut