Both... [pauses to dream and drool on oneself] Yes, that would be cool and preferable to me over keeping the 996TT. Unfortunately I have a deal with my wife - one exotic at a time and I get to keep my estate.
Ahhh come on now OZ, we were doing so good there for awhile. Don't get uptight. I wasn't trying to insult your abilities. I'm sure your a very good driver. I didn't mean you personally. I meant if someone found the 355 challenging to drive, they would have thier hands full in the Z. I should have been more specific.
With all the talk about performance differences between Corvettes and other high end Exotics, I doubt anybody makes a decision based on which one is the better performer. Either you reach for the rarity of a Ferrari/Lambo owner or your satisfied with a car most people could afford. Achieving Corvette status is hardly what I'd call impressive anymore. So the more gratifying goal is to distance yourself from the crowd. Nobody driving an Exotic is wishing he could have a Corvette. However the same cannot be said of the Corvette owner. On the outperformance point, nobody will ever stress the limits of either car or have the opportunity to prove ones superiority to the other so it's kind of a moot point.
Airbarton, I have a funny feeling, that anything I say, that doesn't clearly state that the Corvette is in fact the greatest car of all time, is just not going to satasfy your ego. I simply do not think it is really that great. Now here are a few real facts. My 914 is not a pretty production car. It is a element of it's own. It in fact requires much on going adjustments, (like a real race car) to keep it going. It is the quickest thing I have ever seen from 0 - 130mph. It would beet the latest greatest vett by 8 - 10 car lengths. At that point it starts becomming unstable, uncomfortable unstable, to the point I will not pass this mark. And yes I'm working on suspension upgrades as we speak. I personally don't mind getting my hands dirty, so I work on this car myself, actually it's great theripy. As for my 348, I never said they were cheap to own or maintain. I've said in previous posts in other groups, many people buy these cars, that have no business owning them. I can afford to maintain my car, and feel committed to maintaining it, for nothing more than expierencing and being a very very small part of th legacy. I can afford the cost, actually I actually look forward to taking my car to the shop, we have a really cool shop here in San Diego, where I actually got to go for a test drive in an F-50. No the vette wouldn't stand a chance against one of those, except maybe at a stop light. I guess we can call that car "Galactic Class Preformance Car", since it deffinatly exceeds this groups "World Class Standards". Now when you start seeing front engine cars at indy, I'll by your line about the Vette being more than a mucle car. I think there great cars, nice looking and fast. Much Much less troublesome than any Ferrari. However I will never see this car in the same light as a Vette enthusast. I'm a ferrari enthusist, (I'm former vette enthusast). I've driven the new vetts, I actually use to have a black Black 454 Vette. Honestly the power in the new Vette didn't impress me a bit. I'm a gear head at heart, I don't need to buy a fast production car, I can build one with my own two hands, and for a lot less money. Now my last point, Indy cars have much higher revving smaller displacement engines than Stock Cars. Indy cars are mid engine, stock cars are front engine's. If you put the two cars on the same oval, I'll let you figure which would Previal. I just realized something, that comparison isn't valad, kind of like comparing a Corvette and a Ferrari isn't valad. Have you ever seen a front Engine Formula Car?
a nissan z weighs more than a z06. who said sometimes you can have more fun driving a slow car fast vs a fast car fast?
You know Gothspeed, I really do have to agree. Every time I take my 348 out it's like driving practice, the car really does take a real driver. I'm personally still working on perfecting it, and I never realized it untill you said it, but it does add to the driving expierence. I wouldn't trade it for (5) Z06's, except maybe to sell them and buy me a 348, 355, and 360. I actually have gotten to the point where I get into the sweet zone with my 348, it is actually something a Z06 owner would nver understand, and I hesitant to believe a former 348, now Z06 wouldn't admit to understanding. You know some people actually buy Ferrari's thinking they just have to put gas in them and drive them. No really! No one ever said Itilans made reliable cars. They make ultimatly fast cars, with spectatular good looks & stiling. The cars require and uncommon level of committment, and maintaince, just like real race cars. If you can't afford the time or money, you should leave them alone, and buy something more trouble free, and faster. You know it would have been simple for Ferrari to have made the 348 unbeatable, they new exactly how to do it. I'ts called a twin turbo charged flat 12 engine. It is a 25 year old design that puts out nearly twice as much as the latest greatest Z06 engine. Imagine that. Ferrari did us all a really big favor though, they held back a little, put a V8 in the car, and kept the price under 200K. Many people paid in excess of 200K for a new 348, this was back in 1989 to 1995. If you adjust the dollars for inflation, they today were 1/2 Million dollar cars. Yes there not the fastest, but yes they sitll drive, feel, and in fact are genuane ferraris, that's exactly what I think the ferrari folks would tell you. There not race cars, but there almost race cars, and the maintaince should be judged accordingly. Most real ferrari owners realize this going in. The only ones complaining are the ones that didn't understand this basic operating principal. Yes a 17K maintaince bill for a year is expensive, unless you can afford, and plan for it. Like I have said before there are lots of very good, "world Class" sports cars out there that are pretty much maintance free, (I could have said Idiot Proof, but didn't). Some faster than others, many faster than stock ferrari's. Now for all the genuan ferrari guys, do you think Bob Norwood picked up that world land speed record holding ferrari 288 at a local showroom? Conclusion: Fastes Sports Cars in the World = Ferrari :END:
Hey Henryr, even "I" Have to admit, that Vette you want in your profile, is truly one of the greatest, "world class" mucle cars of all time. My father use to have one of those, really scary, I'm not even sure it had 500 ponies. But even you will have to spend much to keep it preston. Cool cars take time and money. thats the point. By the way I only smoke the finest cigars in the world, and belirvr it or not there not only cubans. By the way please to meet you Chuck, (IE Chuck = Airbarton, got it). My name is Ken. Well at least you kept the f-car for now. We just have to agree to dis-agree. I do have a question for you though. Remember I don't know you very well, so please don't be offended, this is not ment to be. Say you do in fact own both cars, remember I'm not saying you do'nt, I'm actually giving you the benefit of any dought. Lets just accept the Z06 is faster than a 348. Now I have in fact driven both cars, as you. Can you tell me truthfully, you don't get more satisfaction out of getting in sink with the 348, than you do out of driving the all forgiving Vette? Even though it has a stronger smoother running gear? So why have you found it difficult to part with the 348? Could it be your just a purest at heart, and even though you have a Wild Mustang that runs faster than your pure bread arabian, you just like having the purbread horse in your stable? Even though it's old and can't run as fast. Just a thought.
I'm not sure I understand this logic but it does seem to be a Ferrari and Lambo sort of thing to brag about. I spent so and so $$$$$s on my car to keep it running like it's some kind of badge of honor. I disagree as well. My 355 did not break down for 3.5 yrs. It was stone cold reliable and I am definately sure that if I spent 17K/yr to maintain it that would not have enhanced my ownership experience. Sports cars are for driving bottom line. The Z06 is a stupendous driving machine. Absolutely great. Eclipsed by very few right now. The 430 being one and the GT2/Murcielago being others. I find this odd why some Ferrarists and Porscheophiles poopoo the Z06 without ever driving it. It's kind of like finding out that Bennigans has just created one of the greatest steaks ever and just saying well i'm too good to go and eat a Bennigans steak. I would rather deny myself the pleasure of eating one of the greatest steaks ever because of my prejudices. It's food it's meant to eat not to brag about. Same with cars.
I guess its just no fun to say all of these cars have their pros and cons... Some thoughts... Ferrari 355: I just spent 4 days putting about 600 miles on my 355...its a fun car to drive. I love the sound of the engine..I love the way it handles and I believe its one of the best looking cars of all time. It feeds my narcissistic side nicely. But it has its faults..its not 'fast'..its quick..but not neck snapping fast. The interior is poorly made and it rattles like crazy. The seats are not very comfortable. Theres always some little thing broken..window switch, top mechanism, A/C,etc Viper: I just sold my 2001 Viper which i owned since new and put 27,000 miles on. It had a few mods and was a BRUTE. Snapped your neck and made you dizzy during acceleration, FAST as opposed to QUICK. Lots of fun and incredibly reliable. I never had anything go wrong with that car. It also has really comfortable seats. Gets plenty of attention...arguably as much, or more than the 355. Of course it sounds like a truck, rattles worse than the 355 and interior quality is almost as bad, and does not inspire confidence in the twisties cuz its too heavy, so its fun was limited to the straight line. Benz E55: Just bought it a month ago and have put 2000 miles on it in all sorts of conditions. It feels almost as fast as the Viper off the line...gives me that torque rush I crave. Plush interior. Handling is fine for a big car but I dont want to throw it into turns. Gets zero attention except from divorced soccer moms looking for their next score. C5 Z06: My friends car and Ive driven it a lot as I was considering getting one at one point. Doesnt feel quite as fast as the Viper but way faster than the 355. Definately fast. I found the interior to be ergonomic and comfortable...not sure where all the hate for the Vettes interior comes from. Just because something isnt covered in connolly doesnt mean it sucks. Handling was much better than the Viper but not as good as the 355..at least to my instincts. I had no lack of confidence throwing this car into twisties. Of course it gets zero attention, less than the E55 ( yes most of us do want some attention) and resale value blows. Perfect daily driver but just doesnt feel 'special'. Lotus Elise: I bought one of the first ones in SoCal and got rid of it almost immediately. Its probably the most fun to drive out of all of the above. Handling is scary good in that it gives you overconfidence to take corners faster than you probably should. Its a quick car though..not a fast one. The interior is a joke and my 6'1" frame couldnt hack it. It gets very little attention except from chicks who say its 'cute'. Its the perfect car if all you care about is 'most fun to drive dollar for dollar'. To comment further on my classifications of some of these cars as 'fast' or 'quick'..at the end of the day they are ALL sufficiently fast and none of them should be considered dogs or be looked down upon. If your desire for ultimate acceleration is such that the difference between 3.9 sec and 4.9 sec to 60 matters you probably should just go buy a Supra/Mustang and mod it...thats your best bang for the buck I would think. I guess my point is ALL of these cars, regardless of what they cost have merit and are worth owning. Anyone who thinks a vette sucks because its less costly than a Fcar or because its made in the USA is an idiot. The Vette is an amazing car..in fact, if you consider what it and the viper sell for, they are arguably more amazing cars than anything Ferrari/Porsche/Lambo has ever made. Having said that..Im sticking with my 355...why would I do that if the Vette and Viper are better cars for the dollar ? Because I can afford it and theres a certain undefinable 'magic' that comes with driving the 355..and I dont mean the attention. Its about heritage and 'fun to drive' not about buying the absolute best performing car available to me Just my $.02 J
The biggest problem with owning a vette or a viper in the US is the owners. Virtually all of the Vette guys that I have run into at the track have 'attitude'...and the viper guys have the same thing, except magnified. Painful, and not something I would want to be associated with. Additionally, they are a dime a dozen in the US. In Europe Vette drivers seem to be enthusiasts, because it is a unique 'niche' car, and they are pretty rare. I might buy one if I lived in Europe.
The vette really is a dime a dozen in the US..big strike against it. GM should have given the Z06 even more exclusive styling. The viper on the other hand isnt really common and still turns heads like an exotic even here in hollywood. As for the personality traits of the people that own them..I can see that being the way it is around the track. But in my experience theres an equal amount of 'jerk' owners belonging to all of the marques. In the past week Ive had a Z06 owner and a 430 owner both give me some snobby attitude.
they can't resist screwing up a good thing. i don't care what anyone says, gm (even lutz) and ford are not run by car guys. product sells. develop cool cars and people will buy them regardless of quality (and their quality is not as bad as public opinion believes it to be). they torched the ZR1 by making all the vettes look the same.
i love the mid year vettes purely for their design but i have no illusion that one of the premier performance cars of the sixties could match the performance of a 80's corvette let alone a new one. people smoke cubans for the allure. i think those from the DR are just as good / better.
The 914 Renigade is some rocket. You should enter it in that Speed Channel show Pinks were you race for pink slips. I can see it now....you bluff the Corvette ZO6 owner into thinking that its the same VW powered 70 hp 914 that left the VW factory. He looks at the Renigade and agrees to give you 90 car lenghts! The race starts and you whip him by a fender! Now the bad news.....you are the non-proud owner of a ZO6. I love this thread!
Actually I coulcn't agree more. All of my abasalute favriots are from the D/M. You seem to know your cagars.
Ok Rammer. I won't go to the speed channel, but I'll go straight to you. I have another Vechile in my stable. I don't talk about it much, does it have "WORLD CLASS PREFORMANCE", I would deffenatly say not. We need to agree on a time. I would be willing to make a little Gum Ball Rally with the Mighty Vette Owners. I will rally, (race for the ones that can't take a drift) As many Vetts that show up at the pre determined time, from the intersection of the I-15 & Ortega Hwy., Via the Ortega Hwy. to the intersection of the I-5 & the Ortega Hwy. Great Drive, especally in a Ferrari, But I'm not going driviea Ferrari. I will let all the Vetts Start in front of me, and the ones that beat me to the I-5 get to split the proceeds of the sell of my 914 Renigade. But I get to keep every Vette I pass, and finishes behind me, at the I-5. and If I pass every one, I get to keep them all. I would hope they would all be new Z06's. Think About it. I'll be waiting. Now for my 914, from 0-130 it will make most vetts, look just as silly at the indycars, make the corvette pace car look at the beginning of the Indy 500. No like I said, I'm having problems keeping it on the ground faster than that, and if I get the stability problrm resolved, I'm not really sure how fast it can go. Exceeding Abundance of HP at 130, but no offical figures. Rammer, it's called a sleeper. Yes I do blind side other performance cars with this car, most of the time, People that think they own unbeatable cars would never give a 914 the least bit of respect. I always choose the challange point, and always make my challenges at my discretion, something my father taught me, (he actually use to race professonaly). I always start from behind, it's actually much more fun to pass them, when there trying to blow me in the weeds with there "World Class Performance Car". Most of the time I'm content to just stay behind them, right behind them, they almost always get the point, slow down drive normally, I actually have bought 2 people lunch, and shared a good cigars. They were from what in my opinnion is a very respectable group. They were Viper Owners. I actually don't know why everybody keeps bashing these guys, ther some of the most down to earth, normal car owners I have ever met. Kinda like F-car & Lambo Owners. Ok , "CORVETTS ARE THE WORLDS BEST CARS!!!", Nothing in the world compares to the spectatcular "VETTE", Especally the Magnifacant "Z06". Value, and preformance spec.s for these cars are off the chart, and best of all, if you own one, nothing, I mean Nothing, Even the most expensive cars in the world will ever out run you. Have any of you Corvette Guys, ever heard of a Lola? Buy the way, "Rammer" I think it's fun too. Indy
You know Henry, your probably right, the older Vetts probably couldn't keep up with the newer ones. They are just, "just like the 348", more exciting to drive. and felt faster. The raw horse power, the cars unforgiving nature, let me tell you, early 60's vetts are and always be classics, and in my opinnion "World Class Cars". As great as the new Vetts are, they just feel to dopped down, to refined, almost too good. Anyone can drive one. It doesn't feel like a real competative car. Real race cars, require a race car driver, they always seem to have a fuel smell, everything is stiff, unusually strong, and built almost too solid. And they almost always do not shift worth a ****, unless your in the gears rev range. Much like your older corvette, and my ferrari. I woudln't have traded my older early 70's 454 Vett for one of the new ones. Even with the Auto Trans, it felt way scarier than a new one feels. I never found out how fast it would go, like i've said in the past my personal mojo runs out about 130 - 150 maybe, on a good day. That Vett went way faster than that.
Ken, sorry it took so long to reply but I am out on a trip to Canada right now. The answer to your first question is no. I like both cars for different reasons and get equal satsfaction out of both. The answer to the second question is simple. I just love cars period and since I have a clear title on it there is no real motivation to sell. Besides, each car gives me a completely different experience.
Sorry to burst your bubble but I am niether a "Vettie" or a "Ferrariie" for lack of a better term. I am just a car lover period. Unlike many of the people on this site, I am able to appreciate many different cars. I like Porches, Vettes, Ferraris, Vipers, Lambos, Ect, Ect, Ect. I even like non performance cars. Why is that so difficult to accept?
Sorry airbart, I had the weekend off. Lets see where were we?? So you can appreciate "non-perfomance" cars? That's not hard to accept. Lets see, how about we all start appreciating all cars? What do you think of my neighbors 1992 Ford Taurus station wagon? It is bone stock and gets decent gas mileage...great for getting the groceries and taking in the recyclables....
You know I'm a Ferrari guy thru and thru, but I have had my share of Vettes. I think most F-car ppl prolly owned a Vette at some time. I will never forget the time when I saw a Viper GTS in my rear view on the on-ramp while driving my slightly modified '69 427 (race suspension, engine warmed over, looked totally stock) and punched it for grins. Well, I pulled him slightly until we hit 130, then ran out of gears and we hit traffic. It was then I realized that his car could stop and turn and mine, well, it would stop at someone's bumper, I guess. Foolish, but a thrill. Hey, if u want to talk about a car u have to learn how to drive, try a 996 TT. I am only too anxious to move this out of my garage since I do not see the logic why I have to learn how to drive a car all over again after 35 years. Ferraris and even Vettes are better balanced.
Sounds like you need little practice at the wise guy thing. Haven't you ever been to a classic car show? My point was missed once again. I am not sure why we are having such a hard time communicating. Maybe I should try speaking munckin!
C'mon air...I didn't mean to hurt your feelings . No one missed your point..... just trying to bring a little smile to ya'. Yes, I've been to many classic car and also motorcycle shows. Yes, there are many beautiful cars to appreciate out there. Someone on another thread posted a link to a nice convertible corvette we can all appreciate. P.S. Hope you can speak munchkin better than you spelled it. Image Unavailable, Please Login
