First, just to put my stamp on it, this is my personal opinion, not factual based. I think the key is finding a good car, then negotiate the price. I'm still looking, so I have no "real" F-car experience, only what I've learned from here and from Dave Helms in Boulder Colorado (he rocks, spent at least 2 hours on the phone with me and I don't even own a car yet. Of course, when I do, he will service it, he's earned it). As far as the 50K plus trend, my personal opinion is that, while the 328 is a GREAT car, and from what the listers say, the best "driver" car, its still a mid-model mass produced Ferrari. We're not talking F40 here, we're talking 328. My comments specifically though were for the 88.5 / 89 ABS model commanding a premium versus the 86-87 328s. There are alot of "junker" 86-87s which hurt the price, but admittedly, alot of 89 ABS's, even good cars like Rob's are still on the market. I think mid-40s is fair for a good 86-87 328, maybe high 40s DOC (depending on condition). Does the 5-10K difference mean much to gain ABS and a newer car (all things being equal including mileage and condition)? I would say not. There's a bit of "supply and demand" at work here, the 89s are more sought after because it was the last year and it is the most "refined". But I'm not sure it really holds any collectors value as 1) the 328 is a mass produced driver car as mentioned, and 2) buyers still seem to be hard pressed to buy an 89 with "high" miles like Rob's. To me, the bottomline is, for a driver car, the 5-10K premium for a 89 ABS car isnt worth it compared to the same driver car 86-87 for a lesser price. BTW. I've never driven an ABS car, so I can't speak for performance enhancements (either braking or handling based on the upgraded suspension). However, besides track days, I would guess most 328s aren't pushed up to the limit for the differences to become apparent. Again, all this is just a personal opinion. BTW, I've again "mentally" considered Rob's car, so I might end up making him an offer even though its a 89 ABS only because of the condition. See my comment about "all things being equal". James in Denver
and all this time i thought it was a kiss bandmember with a unibrow. at least i know where your signature came from...the day is done but I'm having fun john
Respecting that this is your opinion and offered as such: There are many people looking for really good 328s for $45K, but what I experienced when buying mine, and having followed this board, is that a $45K 328 usually either (1) has some miles on the clock, (2) is verde scuro with lipstick red leather or (3) needs stuff done. In fact I've seen really exceptional 84-85 308s pushing close to $50K. They're a bear to find because everyone's busy preserving F40s and driving the snot out of 308s. In general, I'm not sure F40 prices have much relevance to 328 prices. What is true is that the only way to find any of these cars (328, 355, TR, etc.) is to find a good used one that someone wants to sell. Even 7000 328s or 7000 Testarossas end up being surprisingly rare when you actually get out there and look. A lot of us have to buy from out of state. The other issue is that for people who want to own a driveable Ferrari that won't break their wallet after purchase, the options are limited. As much as I love TRs and 355s I would be really pi$$ed off coming home from the shop with, say, an $18K repair bill, or the $30K gearbox bill that a longtime fchat'er is dealing with in Florida right now. Much of the demand from guys who wanted a Ferrari and can't swing a 360/430 is heading right for 328s. And there are at least several experienced F owners here who have 328s in addition to a TR, or 430, etc., so it's not just first-time owners going for the good ones. (Some of this applies to 308s as well - definitive Ferrari looks, relatively sane maintenance costs, usable on real roads, etc.) I agree with you about the ABS premium being questionable, although the suspension upgrade in 88.5 has some legitimate value, if you like the wheels. In the meantime, if Rob changes his avatar, I think his car could be a good one to get. With the current avatar, maybe search a little longer. EDIT: Damn, the clownmobile could be going, going...
Well, since I just went through the selling process, I'll contribute my 2 cents. I'm a believer that this model's value will continue to increase. My 1987 was a solid 8/10, and I always presented it that way. If my experience in selling is any indication, we're finally cracking through the old mentality that a Ferrari driven more than 500 miles/year is a worthless victim of abuse. However, whenever you start talking values, make sure you're speaking objectively and not wishfully. It's funny how the buyers out there think a mint 328 should cost $42K, and the owners with a POS think it's worth $55K. On top of that, we need to remind ourselves from time to time that asking prices ARE NOT selling prices. When I first considered selling, I contacted Motorcars Intl. (where I bought it) to gauge their interest. They asked for photos and records, which I sent, and after a song and a dance about not seeing it in person, they offered $30K sight unseen! The truth was, they had 3 lower-mile 328s on their lot they were trying to sell for $55K+. The problem they would have had is this: They knew their low-mile 328s were overpriced. They couldn't price mine that high, nor could they afford to add another 328 to the inventory for 5-7K less. It screws up their pricing strategy too much to have 3 cars at $55K and another in the 40s--too big a disparity to explain as mileage or non-ABS. $45-$50K is a realistic range for very good 328s. I was in that awkward middle ground of having a car that was 4 years and 7000 miles since its last belt service, but it's also been driven and, as a result, the belts are in excellent shape. Or you can go ahead and pay another 10 grand for a car that hasn't seen much use and hope nothing craps out on you from disuse.
Just finished talking with Jeff328----I believe the clownmobile may seem promising to him...-----Anyone else out there speak now or be clowned!!!!
I didn't mean to start a flame war, as many on this list have been VERY helpful, even looking at a car for me and giving me details about ownership. However, . . . . That is sort of my point. The 328s are drivers, when all the 308s are gone, the 328s will be the drivers and the people who bought at $50K+ will be stuck with a car they lose value on (unless of course they turn it into a garage queen). The supply/demand/price curve is crossing. Its not usual, although it happens. But take the historical V8s, the Dino (308GT4) is still the lowest priced, next is the 308, next is the 328, then 348, then 355. When one model crosses another (like the 328 to the 348/355), either the market is hot (short term effect) or its going to actually be collectable (like the 206/246). I'm just saying I think its a short term effect rather than a true collectibility effect. I could be wrong as I NEVER saw the 206/246 going from $20K in the 80s to $160K + in 2000+. But the 308GT4 has never appreciated like that, and one could argue its a better car from a power and handling perspective Or people who claim thier 89's are worth 55K - 65K are just want to cash in on the short term upswing and run with the appreciation leaving the newbie FCar owner taking the bath. Can be interpreted either way. Again, sorry if this appears to be flaming, not meant to be. Just trying to get my point across to the original poster. The guys on this list are GREAT, maybe I'll make up my mind and buy one eventually considering it looks like Robs car is gone. James in Denver
The 328 is bullet proof. I have a 1989 328 GTS with 40,000 miles. It is in great condition. The cam belt is a critical part. When you buy a Ferrari you are not buying it for resale. You buy it because you love the car. I also have a 355 Berlinetta. I plan to be buried with these cars.
Clownmobile? Is there something you didn't tell me? I e-mailed you a few (or maybe a bunch) more questions, let me know if you didn't receive them. Thanks to everyone for your opinions and advice, keep it coming, I like to hear the various points of view!
I would agree. A car is not an investment. If, at the end of the day, you sell and loose some $$, but enjoyed the car, who cares. Not to scare any newbie, but these cars (328) cost money to maintain. Basic crap cost me at least a couple of grand a year (I spent 2 grand this summer alone). If this was an investment, and I bought a 328 for $50,000 (hypotetical), kept it for 5 years, spent about $10,000 on maintenance over that period, sold it for what I paid for it, then you failed investment 101. Between inflation and expenses you lost money. Most people buy 328's and hope to get close to what they paid for it. They don't ever figure what the cost was to maintain. By the way, the curve of 328's passing 348 and 355 (soon) won't change. The 355 cost many $$ to maintain and the 348 has its own problems. The 328 is cheaper to maintain and is a Ferrari. In 10 years lets see where the 360 will be. Its a great car, but there are so many of them and I see coupes in the $120,000 range. When I bought my 997 C2S I considered a 360 but didn't want two Ferrraris without a warranty. If I get rid of the 328, it will be a 360 spyder. A warranty is a nice thing.
Thanks Gary, your post is spot on! I wanted to remind everyone the late 328s are still very valuable cars, worth double my 1977s........but if you think you can buy the older cars and whistle driving off down the road, think again! I try to point out to everyone that bringing an old car up to a daily driver is gonna take some cash! So $30K + $15K updtaes = $45K is where you end up, either way...... Buy the one you like the bumpers.......LOL!
My thoughts exactly. Thats what I did. '88 GTS red/black 19,000 miles asking $54,000. Had a brand new clutch, tires and brakes at 90%, timing belts done 2 years previous (but not tensioner bearings) had all books tools and most records, original window sticker and 3 keys, car was in-state so would drive it home. It needed new aux belts (made that click-click sound when cold) and a few minor things, agreed on $52,500. Three months after I got it had a full major done, timing belts, tensioner bearings , valves adjusted, ect. cost $6,000. Now I have piece of mind that the car is in great shape and have started a new maintenance program, (yearly fluids ect, 5 year belts,ect.)
For $58,000 you got what you wanted. A great Ferrari. If you look at my guidelines for pricing your within the ballpark. And only 19,000 miles! Great deal. Enjoy. After reading the threads this morning, I decided to take out the 328. I could remember a long time ago, wondering if I will ever master the shift gate. The funny thing is, nothing shifts like a Ferrari. Nothing sounds like a Ferrari. Period! This is why I keep it!
or the real selling prices are in that range, and they are. just finished a 4 month buying process on an '89 and i can tell you for a fact that is the selling price range for nice,low mileage, red/tan '89's. I checked out every nice one i could find in the country during that period, and i was looking for a deal. i even saw several very nice pre-88's sell in the low 50's. i was ready to pay 51k for a 16,000 mile original owner 87 and i got outbid. the highest price i saw was 70k for an '89. these are sales prices not asking prices. i made offers on several cars before i got mine and couldn't get anyone down more than 2k. the guy i bought mine from only came down 2k and i think that was only because he was going through a divorce and i flew out to dallas and was standing in his house and needed a ride back to the airport. his cell phone was incessently ringing with calls about the car while i was talking with him. bottom line-very nice, low mileage red/tan 89's are going for 55-65k right now. will they go up? don't know. but if you want one right now, that's probably what your gonna have to pay.
Au contraire! I just spotted a low mileage (15,000) 1989, Black/black GTS for a mere $15,000. I believe we have a market correction now in progress... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FERRARI-328-GTS-1989-ready-for-new-skin_W0QQitemZ190028753968QQihZ009QQcategoryZ6212QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem So there! Okay, back to work.
It needs a major and he doesn't have all the receipts! That is the only black on black that has a higher serial number then mine. I always assumed that mine was the last black on black manufactured. I may be wrong, but by the looks of that thing, mine is still the last black on black around. Anyone out there have a serial number on a black on black higher then mine: 81485?
you got me on that one. i must revise the estimate down now to include this beauty(even though it's not red/tan. new value-54k-64k.
Not to go off on a "what might/could/should happen" scenario, but honestly - if someone DOES buy this beaut, considering the dollars invested to bring it back to any resembling a car again will probably boost 328 values. Since I'm an old person, I too well remember in the late 80-early 90 price spikes. I had a Ferrari Dino 246 (which during that time didn't bounce with NEARLY the same motion of today) and then a Ghibli SS and Ferrari 330GTC shortly thereafter. I foolishly sold the GTC (don't ask) and thought the Ghibli was - as many did at the time - the "next Daytona." In two words: It wasn't. Though they did jump remarkably in the "echo" market, from ABOUT $25k to $60K in 3 years or so, falling precipitously to the mid-high 30's after things settled. However, during that speculative time, MANY Ghiblis got restored at mega-buck prices, and even the tattiest of examples rose in price, headed for resto-ville. This fueled lots of market chasers and was happening simultaneously on many cars. I'm just picking on the Ghibli because it was a bit of a 'dark horse' (a la 328 in the eyes of some) versus the whole of the movement. So, as people invest money in either "restoration" or significant maintenance expenses on 328s, sans hesitation or fretting over "Oh my gosh, should I sell my boat to get the cam belts done!?!" then the prices should hold pretty well, probably continuing the climb past 348s, and EVENTUALLY into 355 territory. By the way, as is often written, when cars fall into "unsympathetic hands" (usually meaning deferred maintenance) the market almost MUST wait on the bold steps of pioneering restorers to pick it back up. (E-types went through this for years. Another story. Panteras are to some degree held in this gray area. Please, no Pantera bashing - I have a one-owner 74 w/23k miles, in dark green no less.) If someone actually buys the skeleton of a 328 on ebay, we should probably raise a glass of Chianti for at least 3 reasons: 1) Someone's going to invest a pile (and may up with a 'pile' of a very different type) 2) Some great parts are about to hit the market, and 3) It'll be out of sight so we don't have to look at it any longer! Sorry for the length of the reply. Oh, and I'd STILL love a "different colored" 328 GTB. Carry on.
