Italian GP Qualifying ***spoiler***

Maybe the video that has been posted here, is not of the lap in question. We are all just guessing. Three stewards signed their names to this decision, knowing that if protested, they would have to appear before the FIA to explain this decision.

I am curious to what will be said in the morning during the SpeedTV broadcast. Much can happen overnight.

 

Well Massa complained of loosing downforce, which in all likelyhood could have occured. There would obviously be a huge disturbance in the air behind alonso around the sector three turns which could cause Massa to lift mid-turn as described by symonds.

As far as sportsmanship I think everyone on top is starting to take desperate measures. I mean in a sport where 1000s of a second make a difference your decision making abilities are going to be in question. If you even think about slowing down someone behind you will probably fall off pace and slow them down on accident whether you wanted to or not.

I really don't think the stewards would screw FA on purpose. If you look at the times when Ferrari has been favored, or any team for that matter, it tends to relate to TV ratings. All the FIA and Ecclestone really care about is the money Formula 1 generates, and moiving alonso back doesn't help. If Alonso and Schumy started next to each other tomorro more people would be tuned in at the beggining of the race.

With that being said, everyone is getting penalized and I think the system is getting out of control. What really happened today with Massa and FA is between them, there is really no other way to tell who held up who.


So what was MS and KR talking about after the race in that picture?

 

From the footahe I've seen on Speed this morning, it looks to me like a bogus penalty. Then again no one here has the telemetry these two teams are talking about. It'll be interesting tomorrow.

 

I didn't see the q session, so I would like to see a tape that includes the moments before Massa's Q lap. The lap shown in the videos was Alonso's warm-up lap, after his out-lap, wasn't it? I did not see Fern, come out of the pits, he was on the far left of the track going into the chicane. Or did he turn that lap shown in the videos on an out lap? That would seem a bit strange, for Fern, to be able to come out of the pits that hot, stay in front of Massa the whole time, who is on a q lap and still not be able to qualify higher than 5th.

 

two words; team orders.

joe

 

Fernando did a tire change at like 1:50 left in Q3, he came out of the pits there was about 1:28 left so he had to haul ass during his outlap so that he would cross the line during Q3 and get a flying lap. The issue was that fernando came out pretty close to massa and since fernando has lost part of his aero package, and was on cold tires, so it would seem he would be slower then massa.

 

If you want to say MS cheated in Monaco, then you also have to say Alonso cheated when he blocked Doornbos. There is no two ways about it. Either MS and Alonso are both cheaters, or neither of them are.

I'm real tired of the sour grapes whining. I dont even see what most folks' beef with MS is, other than that he's successful. Do people think that without 'cheating' that he'd only have one WDC, or no WDC's? Laughable!

MS used bad judgement in Monaco and he got penalized for it. It cost him the race an it may have cost him the WDC. Alonso used bad judgement in blocking Doornbos and paid the price. He may have d*cked MS too by braking and forcing him to make a pass, causing him to get a penalty too. MS didn't whinge about it, he took his lumps and went on.

When MS parked it in Monaco, Flavio "village idiot" Briatore whined about how Ferrari would never be penalized - well they were, I guess we're still waiting on his apology for his false accusation.

Funny how people can rattle off numerous MS incidents they consider cheating but whenever someone else does something similar its forgotten quickly.

Finally, the innuendo people foster with comments like "isnt one of the FIA members on the board of Ferrari/Fiat?" are silly. IF it is the case, you also have to believe that said member will act in breach of their fiduciary duty and serve their own interests. Thats a pretty big claim and should be levied quite carefully, yet people throw BS like that around all day in their tinfoil-hat attempt to make themselves feel they must be right in their hatred of MS. The alternative is to acknowledge that the guy they hate so much really is the best driver ever.

 

In addition, drivers DO NOT want someone to be ahead of them when they go to start their fast lap. It makes sense that Alonso would want Massa behind him because FA knew it was his last shot, and he knew FM may very well do a cool down lap, and even if FM moved over, FA may lose a little making a move to go around him. FA is feeling the pressure in a BIG way. He's cracking. He's getting upset and he keeps feeling that he MUST do this or that to win. He is not contemplating a long championship, he is thinking short-sightedly.

I'm not a big FA fan. I hope MS wins and FA DNF's and I hope MS goes on to win the WDC AND announces he's sticking around at least another year.

 

+1

 

Did you watch at all the qualyfing? FA and Renault did not plan anything, they did not plan to get out ahead of Massa, it just happen that way, they were running against the clock after FA puncture.

After the puncture, FA pited, and on exit he tried a fast lap but he was too far behind, 8th. So he pitted again on the very next lap for new tires exiting inmediately at 1:50 to the end, so he had just time to go for the out lap and a fast lap, barely, and on the exit it just happen to be in front of Massa.

Massa did not catch up until the very last corner, for what the complain was filled. Had FA had his car without damages the most probable escenario would be that Massa would had not catch him at all.

And in my opinion FA is not cracking at all. He did not make a mistake in the whole weekend, he had no other choice but to do what he did.

- Julio.

 

+1, but I hope FA get beaten on the track, without DNFs. Whether it be by his own mental breakdowns, or by simply being outdriven.

 

+1

 

only problem with this argument is i'm a big ferrari and ms fan. hate fa. and everyone knows that f1 is a big travelling circus with people jumping from bed to bed weekly. businessmen on several boards at once and acting in their own self interest? nah your right, never happens.

 

As much as I am a big fan of Ferrari and MS, I don't like this penalty against FA; I agree that he is cracking under the pressure (mixing it up with Dornbus) but this was an over-reaction by the FIA just as the Monaco penalty against MS was too heavy-handed.

I think that FA will still probably win the Driver's Championship but that Ferrari will take home the Constructor's title; I think that MS will announce that this is his last year in F1 and that KR and FM will be Ferrari's driver lineup in '07; if you think that FA is cracking now, he'll be Nutsy ***in next year....

 

I agree, but maybe it is a "make-up call" by the FIA to even out the final result.

^My thoughts exactly... although I am still rooting for MS in the driver's.

HAHAHAHA

 

i think the stewards did make a good call. whether or not FA did it on purpose ( which does not make sense to me ), or, he didn't know massa was behind me, we'll never know.

i take this as the same situation in monaco. whether or not MS did make a genuine mistake and locked up, or he did it on purpose ( which, also does not makes any sense to me, as he had his reputation on the line, had a faster car t/out the weekend compared to FA ), we'll again never know.

the stewards made their decision based on telemetry data, just like they did for MS in monaco. and, i do agree with julio. if it was the other way around, i'm pretty sure flav would be the 1st person to protest to FIA.

and..common guys..stop all this whining about the FIAT chairman being a board director whatsoever of the FIA. all rubbish. and it was an italian stewards that punished FA this time? wasn't a spanish steward that punished MS in monaco?

it's all part of the game, and this things do happen, intentionnally or no. like i pointed out earlier, this decisions made by the stewards in monaco and monza, were based on telemetry. whther or not it's a genuine error from FA and MS, or in this case, FA might have not realized that Massa was there behind him, we'll never know.

MS accepted his punishment in monaco, and he took it like a man. and i expect FA doing the same.

 

All i can see now is FA fighting against the FIA for the Driver Championship.

Looks like FIA wants MS to go out with 8 titles.... its just good show-biz
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Under current rules, it was a correct call. But I agree with the complaint that FIA has forgotten that this is racing, and traffic is part of the picture.

Remember when all the cars were out in the last few minutes of the hour-long qualifying session?

And if they want to avoid any traffic, then why drop the 107% rule? SA is out there running four to five laps down -- creating traffic when people are trying to pass.

If you don't like racing in traffic, take up rallye. (Oh, right -- FIA already killed that.)

 

remember alex yoong? thats the main reason the FIA dropped that rule.

 

Who's alex yoong?

 

Oh, that's not at all fair. Compared to Ide, Yooung was a freaking Sato!

 

ex- F1 driver and now driving LMS for Dome (Lammer's Dutch team) - car with all the advertising - I chatted with him at Le Mans this year. . nice guy.

Carol

 

LoL.. i always thought sato and ide were foolish, but fearless. yoong, on the other hand...was scared all the time.

 

Same thoughts here - Alonso's only hope now is to make noise with the press and this is a really great way to loose the respect of Ron Dennis and McLaren - perhaps it's time for Alonso get out of F1 based on the article and join the ranks of Nascar. In the article he said 'WITHOUT BLOCKING ANYONE INTENTIONALLY" - sounds guilty to me and that he was blocking. Cracking under pressure . . . yes . .

World champion Fernando Alonso has said he no longer considers Formula One a sport after he was penalized for blocking Felipe Massa in qualifying for the Italian Grand Prix.

The Renault driver, close to tears at a packed press conference at the Renault motorhome on Sunday morning, said that the FIA's decision to delete his three fastest laps had changed his view on what F1 was all about.

"I did my lap without blocking anyone intentionally," said Alonso, speaking in front of video screens showing on board footage from Massa's cars of the incident.

"I love the sport, I love the fans coming here, a lot of them from Spain, but I don't consider F1 anymore a sport."

Alonso insisted that he did not block Massa deliberately and said that if he was penalized for what happened this time then it would likely lead to problems in the future.

"If you see the video, then if this is blocking intentionally we will have a lot of problems from now on in qualifying. If this is blocking, I don't understand how we will race today if this is the minimum distance (between cars)."

Team boss Flavio Briatore made it clear that Alonso had not impeded Massa deliberately - and that he had only completed his out lap in qualifying at such a speed because he needed to get across the start-finish line before the chequered flag came out.

"Yesterday Fernando was penalised for the lap, and I want only to tell you, Fernando never intentionally wanted to stop Massa," explained Briatore.

"You know, he had a tyre accident. Fernando come back to the pits, we checked on the chassis and it was quite dangerous to send Fernando out again.

"But we are fighting for the championship and the people need to see a show. This is the reason why we love the sport, this is the reason why Fernando go out and he made the chequered flag to start his quickest lap by one second.

"We told him by radio to drive like a qualifying lap on his out lap because really we were very, very tight, because we check the chassis and the suspension. He did a perfect job and we had no intention to stop Massa.

"We don't want to argue with the decision, but we tell you what is our position - we are quite sad that this happened and Fernando takes the risk to do this lap.

"We need to recognise that when you send the driver out in the position he was, he takes a lot of risk."

Carol

 

Quote- "maybe the FIA are trying to remove Alonso from the championship because he is obviously a movable aerodynamic device..."
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