Historic Indy question | FerrariChat

Historic Indy question

Discussion in 'F1' started by nthfinity, Sep 12, 2006.

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  1. nthfinity

    nthfinity F1 Veteran

    Mar 21, 2005
    7,467
    South East MI
    Full Name:
    Isaac not Issac
    I know this is a long shot, specifically because the car/driver failed to qualify; but I'm looking for imformation on this

    1931 Indy 500
    no. 73
    Driver: Carl C. Smith
    Car: C.C. Smith-Mercer
    Carl C. Smith

    I know before, and after this, he was very involved with racing @ Indy, good friends with many of the best racing drivers of the era, such as Peter De Paolo, Jimmy Gleasman, George Bailey. He was also part of the LHA that forged the first highway across America in 1913 with Carl Fisher, and Bob Joy. I also understand he was asked to pace the Indy 500 in 1975; but couldn't due to health reasons.

    any further information would be very helpful
     
  2. Gilles27

    Gilles27 F1 World Champ

    Mar 16, 2002
    13,337
    Ex-Urbia
    Full Name:
    Jack
    Perhaps you could contact the IMS Museum. I'm sure they have a historian there who can help out. Good luck.
     
  3. nthfinity

    nthfinity F1 Veteran

    Mar 21, 2005
    7,467
    South East MI
    Full Name:
    Isaac not Issac
    I think i called a bit after they left, i'll try again tomarrow.

    It was kept secret for 75 years that my great grandfather raced at Indy... so now i'm digging and finding interesting stories about what it was that he did, and was a huge part of pioneering the automobile in the old days. Unfortunately, he died 6 years before I was born.
     
  4. jeffashcraft

    jeffashcraft Formula Junior

    Jun 14, 2006
    277
    Dallas TX
    Full Name:
    Jeff Ashcraft
    contact Donald Davidson at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. He is the official historian of the Speedway and has an encyclopedic knowledge of all things 'Indy 500'.

    Their phone number is 317-492-6784.
     
  5. Gilles27

    Gilles27 F1 World Champ

    Mar 16, 2002
    13,337
    Ex-Urbia
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    Jack
    That is very cool! I can understand why you would want to explore that. Good luck, and definitely keep us posted on what you find out.
     
  6. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
    5,966
    Milton, Wash.
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    Jeff B.
    The car was apparently a Mercedes, not a Mercer.
     
  7. nthfinity

    nthfinity F1 Veteran

    Mar 21, 2005
    7,467
    South East MI
    Full Name:
    Isaac not Issac
    Some additional info:
    the President of Packard was once Alvan Macauley was a friend of my great grandfather, as pictured together in the fall in Detroit in front of Alvan's home. Carl (My great grandfather) is pictured on the far left, with Macauley in the drivers' seat.

    http://www.nthimage.com/create_hits/work/Carl%20with%20Packard%20President.jpg

    http://www.nthimage.com/create_hits/work/16th_Indy500_1.jpg
    In this partial photo of the 16th Indy 500 (1928) Fourth on the right of the man in the black racing outfit. (full tie visible) is him

    I saw that too, but one story says c. c. smith-mercer, and the other says mercedes... I hope to have it confirmed soon.
     
  8. dbw

    dbw Formula Junior

    Apr 3, 2005
    897
    palo alto ca
    Full Name:
    dave
    "man in black" is leon duray...most famous for his miller front-drive [packard cable special] exploits. the car is now at the smithsonian.

    great photo!
     
  9. nthfinity

    nthfinity F1 Veteran

    Mar 21, 2005
    7,467
    South East MI
    Full Name:
    Isaac not Issac
    ^^^^
    I've got a lot more where that came from :) Interesting racer for sure... did i mention that My great grandfather was a Packard man from beginning to its end?

    This photo in particular is too large to scan in itself, and i'll have to be extremely careful when taking a photo with my SLR later.... but that isn't even 1/4 of the photo!

    a few more to enjoy

    George Bailey was a very close friend of his, and he watch die at Indy on May 7 1940... he was very sad at this loss.
    http://www.nthimage.com/create_hits/work/George_Bailey_1.jpg

    Peter De Paolo was one of his very good friends, and they maintained thier friendship until his death.
    http://www.nthimage.com/create_hits/work/Peter_de_Paolo_1.jpg
     
  10. Miltonian

    Miltonian F1 Veteran

    Dec 11, 2002
    5,966
    Milton, Wash.
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    Jeff B.
    I'm not an expert on this subject at all, but I don't think Mercer had a car at Indianapolis after about 1913.
     
  11. Buildy

    Buildy Rookie

    Jul 18, 2005
    26
    nthfinity: Those photos are great! I would like to see more if you want to post them. I am a huge fan of early Indy 500 racing. Sorry I don`t have any info on your relative.

    Best Regards,

    Tony De Seta
     
  12. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 27, 2004
    16,505
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    Jim Pernikoff
    Interesting piece of trivia: NO driver named Smith has ever qualified for the Indy 500!
     
  13. nthfinity

    nthfinity F1 Veteran

    Mar 21, 2005
    7,467
    South East MI
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    Isaac not Issac
    It looks as though I have found the engine that my great grandfather raced. It was a Mercer, not a Mercedes.

    It was quite heavily modified; but unable to compete against the big power Ford's etc... and had a miserable time trying out Indy in 1931. Also, it looks as if the con-rods are separate from the block, which are swiss cheese modified to reduce weight/rotational mass etc.

    It also looks as though he raced elsewhere too, on dirt tracks and perhaps even some boarded speedway's.

    There is a small chance that his race car ended up in Maine, and even 'restored' in "Singing in the Rain". That would be amazing if the car survived WWII.
     
  14. wizzells

    wizzells Karting

    Jul 16, 2005
    231
    Milwaukee, WI
    Neat story!

    Do you have any pictures of the engine or engine parts?
     
  15. nthfinity

    nthfinity F1 Veteran

    Mar 21, 2005
    7,467
    South East MI
    Full Name:
    Isaac not Issac
    #15 nthfinity, Mar 4, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Working on that... but these may be the con rods.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  16. ZUL8TR

    ZUL8TR Formula 3

    Feb 12, 2008
    1,354
    Fishers, IN
    This is a pretty cool story. Please keep the updates coming.

    Side note: My grandfather dropped out of med school to pursue racing in Darlington, SC. His car blew up on him and he ultimately died from injuries. The only picture of him with his car has been long lost. My mom was 8 at the time and my grandmother has long passed. No source of info now.

    Good luck with your search!
     
  17. nthfinity

    nthfinity F1 Veteran

    Mar 21, 2005
    7,467
    South East MI
    Full Name:
    Isaac not Issac
    #17 nthfinity, Mar 11, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    This is the first of two photos of the car I'm going to get, the other is from the IMS Museum, where the car wore #73, not #3 in his photo.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  18. Trained Monkey

    Jun 2, 2011
    1
    Isaac,
    Sorry if I created any confusion with the picture shown above. That was not your grandfathers car. "The first car on the left # 3 is Lem Lad driving a Ford V-8 Special. The car on the right #53 is George Rand driving a Maserati. The race is the ARCA sponsored Montauk Grand Prix. " Aparently I am not the only one who has that picture. As for the block and the IMS photo you can se them both in my thread about your grandfather's car at http://forums.aaca.org/f178/odd-ball-block-297660.html. I tried to confirm the face in the IMS photo by your earlier links in this thread but the links are broken.
     

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