Today I was given my sentence for 115 in a 55 on a suspended license

I for one had NO idea that the Fairfax Courts practiced this policy. I had no idea that jail time was a real possibility for driving fast. People have said here that if you're going to commit the crime, then you must be prepared to pay the penalty. That's fine as long as the authorities actually tell you what the penalty is. Show me where in the DMV manual that this is a penalty for speeding? Not in the one I read when I took my driver's test over 20 years ago. Maybe it's changed, but then the authorities need to tell you that they've changed it. Unilaterally, of course. I've known more than 1 driver who was caught totally unaware by this law and suffered a stint in the Fairfax Hilton. Had they known, they would have certainly kept their speed under 90mph. The point is that it's not advertised, so we don't have full information. When someone told me that a driver could go to jail in Fairfax County for driving fast, I laughed. I thought it was nonsense. And, let me say that almost all other Counties in VA will not put you in jail for driving fast. I'm sure none of us wants to test that hypothesis, but for the most part it's true.

I have an acquaintance who was stopped for something like 150 in a 55 here in Fairfax. There was a chase, and this was looking pretty bad for this fellow. This was, in fact, one of the top 3 recorded speed violations in VA at the time (maybe 2 or 3 years ago), and every traffic defense attorney was watching closely to see the sentence. When this fellow went to court, he asked for a continuance (which is standard procedure and one is granted by right) to roll the dice for a more sympathetic judge. He remained free and retained his driver's license, to which the judge expressed shock. Anyway, when the new court date arrives, this fellow arrives expecting that he was going away for a long time. His attorney advised him that there really wasn't much he could do, and that he should be prepared. It turns out that in the meantime the LEO had quit the force and as a consequence there was no one to present the Commonwealth's evidence. All charges were dismissed and he dodged a VERY big bullet. This is a true story, and the guy has the luck of a leprechaun. Just unbelievable, but true.

CW

 

CW - My point is that jail time for speeding is unjust. The punishment is hopelessly unfit for the crime.

As I posted in the DC area section, I recently found myself in court for a Maryland speeding violation - 95 in a 55 in my 430. While waiting for my audience with the judge, I watched a kid who'd been ticketed for speeding on a suspended license get a lecture (including a warning that next time he'd go to jail) and a fine and be sent on his way. That seemed about right.

My own sentence seemed about right: I'd gone to traffic school, hired a lawyer, appeared and plead guilty - no tickets of any kind anywhere for the past 14 years or so - got a fine and a couple points. No doubt my insurance will go way up. OK, I deserved all of it. But, in Fairfax, would I have gone to jail?

In my view, judges who hand down absurd sentences undermine public respect for the legal system. Justice, and some compassion, help the system work. Heck, how many will learn of this draconian policy and decide that, if you're caught speeding, you ought to try to run for it? Not me, but ... to those Fairfax County judges who impose jail time for speeding I say, and I hope they read this: you ... are ... jackasses.

 

Jail for speeding is rediculous. Speeding is not a crime. I would agree to a high fine to deter drivers as a first measure followed maybe by suspended license for continuing occurences, but jail is absurd.
In my opinion, anyone who thinks that a speeding driver should be penalized by a prison sentence is one back-minded person.

 

How about jail time for idiots yaking on cell phones while driving or putting on make-up, mini van and suv moms would be now overfilling the County jails.

Its always funny to me watching road construction 99% of the time its women who are involved in accidents, they have so many distractions going on while driving then get confused with the lane changes or various signs directing them where to go, when all is lost and they don't know what to do they usually blare on the horn for instance even if no other cars are around such as when they blow there tires out going the wrong way with signs clearly saying not to go this way hitting a 4" cut in the pavement milled down.

 

I have to agree that jail for speeding (even extreme) is draconian. If there is evidence that the speeding is a danger to others...that's different but that presumably would be a criminal offense of dangerous driving.

I live in Canada and it is interesting to note that our Courts of Appeal have recently struck down as unconstitutional a law that mandated a minimum jail sentence (7 days) for driving while prohibited under motor vehicle legislation. Shows how far we are, in Canada, from "jailing" speeders.

 

Very fair and wise courts. These are people who use their brains in implementing the law. That way the make people appreciate the law and not hate the law for it's absurdness and unfairness.

 

Some time ago (6-9 months, maybe) a fellow on a motorcycle was charged with reckless driving because he was doing well over the century mark. The judge actually dismissed the reckless charge, IIRC, because speeding is not prima facie evidence of reckless driving. In other words (plain English for you non-lawyers), speeding in and of itself isn't reckless. However, this judge was somewhere in the midwest, so it's not controlling case law for VA. However, it should be! When one considers the advances made in vehicle and road safety and tire, braking, engine and suspension technology, a 55mph speed limit is, in a word, assinine.

And, Will...you got that right. Fairfax Judges are jacka$$es!

I know I posted on the topic, so it's searchable in the archives.

CW

 

DGS- doing 115 on roads with normal traffic at 55 is inherently dangerous, this is not the autobahn with strict land discpline or roads built for outright speed.

Simple point, one is more likely to get in an accident at 115 than 55 when there are normal traffic flowing around, the approach speed will catch many off guard.

Your position basically states speed limits should be abolish and every individual can determine their own speed limits. This applies to 17 year olds in ford mustangs and rice rockets right?

In that case maybe Virgina should abolish all silly laws and allow citizens to police themselves.

Whether one should goto jail for speeding is an entirely separate issue.

 

Asianbond,

I agree that if one is driving 115mph while the average speed of traffic surrounding one is 55mph then one has created a dangerous situation. However that is not the case we are discussing and, in my opinion, you are wrong in the rest of your statements.

First: the US interstate highway system was designed primarily in the 1950's with a design criteria of safe 110 mph travel. Note: 1950's automotive technology was MUCH more primative than todays, therefore the design should be able to safely handle sustained speeds well in excess of 110mph. Therefore, assuming there is no other traffic, 115 mph is not inherently dangerous.

By the way, the reason the the 55 mph speed limit was imposed was to conserve fuel during the gas crunch in the mid 1970's, it has remained primarily because it is a useful revenue generator.

Second: Having enjoyed driving on the autobahns in Germany earlier this month, I can assure you the road quality is not better than that of the US interstate system, only the driving skill of the drivers, on average, is very noticably better.

Third: I disagree with the comment that one is more likely to get in an accident at 115mph than at 55mph. Generally, the faster one goes, the more focued one becomes on the task of driving. I have had a few fender benders over the years, all were during low speed driving. However, you can correctly say that if you have an accident at 115, it probobly will have more significant con sequences.

The rest of your comments are just nonsense.

Regards,

Art S.

 

How many inmates were in for speeding Nick and what were the circumstances that caused them to be in jail?


BTW Good idea and leave ASAP start fresh in Cali

 

But where do you see that there was "normal traffic" in this case?

I haven't seen much of any traffic in FFX that I'd call "normal".

I'd feel safer driving 115 on an empty freeway than at 45 around unskilled drivers.

The issue is the other traffic. Driving much faster than other cars requires that you can rely on the other drivers not to do something stupid.

But your obvious attitude towards 17 year old drivers as a whole simply states that it's "okay" to be incompetent -- because we expect it.

I was racing for two years before I was a 17 year old in a mopar hemi (the "ricer" of the day ). (You used to be able to race on NY tracks at 15, where you could get a "junior" street license at 16. NJ had only the basic unlimited street license at 17.)

What makes speed unsafe is the attitude that we accept incompetence as "normal" -- normal for drivers, normal for road maintenance, and normal for traffic management.

Lowering speed limits makes people complacent and inattentive.

Gumball Rally: "55 MPH is unsafe. It's fast enough to kill you, but slow enough to make you think you're safe." Do people gab on cell phones or drink coffee while driving at 115? At 55?

A motor vehicle is an artifact. A machine. Humans have no evolutionary "instinct" for driving. Using "the force" doesn't work. Turning people loose in two tons of hurtling metal without adequate training is what's dangerous.

It's not speed that's dangerous -- it's incompetence and inattention.

"Drive" is a verb, not a gear.

When towns enforce speed limits with jail time, but ignore illegal lane changes, running stop signs, and cutting across three lanes to make a left turn, the message is that it's "okay" to be incompetent, if you do it slowly.

Ever see Stand and Deliver? The key phrase in that story was "The children will rise to the level of expectation." But the US has raised entire generations that fall to the level of our fears.

You see here the fundamental conflict between socialism and capitalism: Who is the godlike commisar who knows what's "right"?

What is a safe speed? Can a bureaucrat say what is safe for a trained driver at the peak of his reflexes in a performance car, based on his experiences toodling around in a nose-heavy SUV?

When I was actively rallying, I remember a time I was taking a well set-up rally car down a freeway at the fringe of triple digit territory.

I got passed. By a rusty Buick.

I'd think that he was being unsafe, but he was keeping it between the lines. So who's judgment controls, there? His? Mine? The people who built the road for 80 mph (in the average '60s car)? The people who thought that lowering the limit to 55 would save gas? (Economy cruise on my Alfa is 70 mph)

Who gets to tell everyone else how to live? You?

One cause of road-rage is not recognizing that the slow granny in front of you in a poorly maintained econobox may be going as fast as is safe for that car/driver combination. And a lack of passing opportunities.

I'd have to say that the biggest cause of unsafe conditions on US roads is the disappearance of passing zones. All traffic winds up clumping together -- generally without adequate separation. That's inherently dangerous at any speed, and especially so when driving skills are "optional".

But the appearance of egalitarian support plus catering to vague fears pushes local governments to set speeds lower and lower and lower -- based on what makes good sound bytes, not on what's "safe".

Over the past 20 years, the same road in Chesapeake VA has gone from 50 to 40 to 30. Whenever anyone makes a mistake on that road, the town "responds" by lowering the speed limit.

Because people get elected by promising to protect you from your own mistakes. Fearing incompetence in others is just an excuse to lower your own metrics.

The only objective evidence of an unsafe speed is getting it wrong: such as failure to maintain lane.

By that criteria, half the drivers in FFX county are "too fast" at 25 mph. Or too slow?

Politicians promise to be "big brother" to make all the "bad things" go far, far away. So they have to pretend to prevent accidents before they happen. So everyone is being dragged down to the lowest common denominator. But it's not making roads safer. It's just trying to reduce the impact when the unskilled encounter the inattentive.

So how should society determine what's "safe"? Because the method we have isn't working -- it's making slow traffic unsafe.

 

Good luck Nick. Glad you're home again. Watch your back.

DEn.

 

Well said, DGS. I'd vote for you on this platform alone!

Gilnsammy - True, but you can't legislate out risk. My best friend and his eldest daughter were run over not once, but THREE times, in a parking lot in Fairfax County by an elderly gentleman who backed out of a parking spot, lost control of his car and got "disoriented". My friend is painfully careful, and for this to happen to him was freakish. Period. All of this, of course, happened well under 25 mph.

Now the kicker...Fairfax has yet to prosecute the driver, and this happened in March. The DA's office and the police have been incompetent at every opportunity. Perhaps intentionally? I don't know, but no breathalyzer was administered even though the driver had had a drink during an early dinner. The officer was even requested to administer one by my friend's wife (who was there and had her own foot run over by this driver when she tried to bang on his windscreen to get him to stop). The police report took months to generate, and this was a completely straightforward event with witnesses. I can't even begin to get into all the absurdities by the DA's office.

The point of all that is just to say that accidents will happen no matter what we do. We can't legislate them out of existence. So, the politicians have responded to public outcry and determined that they'll just slow everything to a crawl to reduce the damage that results from an accident. However, it doesn't appear that they've balanced that with the need to actually move around. In a timely manner. And, they've chosen to selectively enforce traffic infractions. Speeding is just one issue. How about cell phones? The left-lane driver who REFUSES to move over? And, if you try to pass them on the right, they actually speed up? WTF? How about the driver fiddling with the stereo, drinking coffee, reading directions or a newspaper, putting on makeup or WHATEVER? I can assure you that at 100+mph, I wouldn't be doing ANY of those things. Frankly, I don't do any of them anyway (and only rarely use the phone while driving). How can people even use them while driving? At the speeds we're driving at, things happen so slowly that you can pretty much put things on autopilot and still have time to respond. Moreover, I'm not advocating driving 100mph in unsafe conditions, but why shouldn't someone be able to drive 100mph if the conditions and road permit? The beltway? 95 North and South? Dulles Toll Road? The Leesburg Toll Road (or whatever the Dulles Toll extension is called)? These are roads that are long, mostly straight, in good condition and have limited access points (exits). I don't think anyone is suggesting that driving 100mph where cross traffic regularly appears is prudent.

And, why should the insurance companies and courts get to generate all this income from speeders but not people who change lanes without signalling? Or failing to stay right? Or a host of other infraction? Really, it's just so insulting to our intelligence. Pretty much all you have to do to get a driver's license is to show up, pass a written test that a makaka (my attempt at a little humor...VA residents will get this one!) could pass, and pass the driver's test at posted limits by making everyone else on the road avoid YOU! In the immortal words of Crazy Eddie, "It's Insane!"

CW

Just found this on an email from the Ducati List:

"I think that speed traps are an ass backwards way of making people drive safely. The focus should be on making sure people have driving skills before they're given a license. If they did that we could have higher speed limits with fewer accidents."
Cornelius Yriart

 

Nick - you may want to rethink your plans about California. Our speeding laws are as Draconian as any in the nation. Get caught doing anything over 100 and it's straight to the slammer. Radar detectors are fine, but they are illegal here too.
Randy

 

I hate to bust your bubble, but a ticket for 115 on Ca freeways will probably land you in jail too! I believe there is also a speed threshold after which the State can also confiscate your car.
And our glorious and exuberant California Highway Patrol is out there for just one reason, and that’s to write tickets. The CHP isn’t there to help you with road trouble, to help you if you’re lost, or out there to be nice guys. They’re there to write tickets to help fund the State.
And by all means go ahead and tweak up your new Mustang. It’ll never pass the unbelievably strict bi-annual smog test, and if you’re caught with such tweaks, your fine will be one that’s not soon forgotten!
True you can cruise the freeways at 75/80 mph all day long without much worry, unless that CHP guy hiding out behind you in his new little white unobtrusive nearly invisible cruiser is a little short on his ticket quota, then 75/80 mph in a 65 zone will cost you about $500. No laser, no radar, he'll just clock you on his speedo, but then I'm sure you'll be able to pick him out in his little white car, in that sea of little white cars in your rear-view mirror!
Of course you can head out to the wide open freeways of the high desert areas, like on the road to Vegas, but there you might notice a small road sign reading something like ‘Speed monitored by aircraft’, which means the cop in the sky will happily clock your speed, radio it to the smiling CHP waiting on the next freeway on-ramp, and he’ll happily give you a ticket for the speed at which the plane clocked you!
I hate to say it, but CA isn’t the wide open, full speed west. The only thing wide open is the speed at which the CHP can write you a ticket and get you on your way, so they can pull someone else over!
You can skip the hassle of the CHP by staying on the surface streets, but don't run a red light or the Red Light Camera will snap your picture and send it to you in the mail, with a ticket. And watch speeding, lest you’re caught by the controversial but probably soon to be implemented Speed Cameras which will snap a picture of your smiling face, and license plate, and you’ll get that ticket in the mail too, no cop required!
You might do better by halting your Westward migration in Nevada!
Otherwise, Good luck, and Welcome to the Terminators State!

 

The System sucks.Every year theres thousands of unsolved murders and rapes.But they apply their resources to put speeders in jail.

 

Oh great! another idiot with too much horsepower and not enough brains or the responsibility to use it coming to California, just what we need.
We'll watch for you on K-Cal 9 news (station famous for car chases) in Los Angeles, that is if you don't kill someone or yourself on the way here.
Dude!, it's not about speeding that got you nailed in Va. it was about responsibility or the lack thereof and driving on a suspended license...Duh!
JTR's right , they will take your Mustang, your Drivers License, and your freedom here in Ca., especially since you now have such a noteworthy arrest record. Oh, and BTW you'll love our prison population here.
If you think a hot dog attorney was expensive in VA. welcome to Ca.
Grow up! Here's some advice about your "California Dream'n: Take a cab to the airport, fly to Ca., go to Disneyland, get some Mickey Ears, have a magical time in Fantasyland and fly back home. LOL.

 

Is that a new law? Googling tells me they're illegal in Virginia and DC, but the only thing I can find about CA is that laser/radar JAMMERS are illegal. Any additonal information would be appreciated as I'm new to this rule-filled state.

 

Since most accidents occur within a few miles of home, where speeds are often less than the 115 mph under discussion, my guess is that speed is not the active ingredient in most accidents. Still, the post-hypnotic suggestion is that "Speed kills", which should be reinforced at every opportunity lest our analytical abilities cause us to observe otherwise.

Can you spot any other actively enforced post-hypnotic commands in the public domain?

Class? Anyone? Beuller?

 

I have followed this thread, and my belief is that nobody should serve any type of jail time for anything automotive, unless they are endangering someone. Yes, you fly threw a school zone durring school hours, or threw Capitol Hill, that is different. There are so many varribles to consider that someone could be injured or killed. That was not this case. I feel that every "criminal" meaning someone that sets out to violate the law(s) of the land to provide for themselves should be behind bars, before to detain someone for an automotive offence.

 

Hmmm, sorry for wasting my time on you too, Nick. I didn’t realize you already know Everything.
And sad to say you do sound like the stereotypical Californian, transplanted from elsewhere.
Enjoy your Mustang.
Goodbye.