Today I was given my sentence for 115 in a 55 on a suspended license

All seriousness aside, this is a forum for, and about Ferrari. Regardless of what a few ultraliberal, unsubscribed, or non owners may think or feel about speed, or driving fast, a Ferrari is, and always has been about speed and performance both on, and "off" the track. The very essence of the GT touring car has always revolved around that premise, and every advertisement selling cars today that have ANY sporting character would be remiss in thier duty if they did not embellish it.

When the 308 was still fairly new, there was an article in R&T, written by an elderly gentleman whose name I long forgot. I do applogise for that, because he probably had some stature that was emminent to automotive history or perhaps racing history. I only recall his being about 70 years of age and living in England, and his relations of a 308 that he owned and drove. He related how he had a friend who lived up in Scotland, and how he would take the "car" up and go for a visit, which was like some several hundred miles distant. On his course through English and Scotish countryside he had to slow for sheep farmers, and yet admitted to letting her have her breath and seeing her near 150 mph "on the clock" as he put it, on the sparse open roads. His joy in the car blazed through his story like a bright morning sun. It made me fall in love with the 308 more than just about any car ever could. I have always been in love with speed, and hope to hell I always do.

In the early 1960's, virtually all the automakers built some kind of prototype car of the future, from the Chrysler turbine, to the spacey looking creations from GM and Ford, to the absolutely stunning lines of the PininFerrina bodied Ferrari SuperAmerica. While there are a few cars built today that can exceed 200 mph, the SA could approach that speed in 1960. Maybe took a little longer to get up there, but 195 was not beyond its reach, and maybe a "lil more". Many of the interstate freeways had speed limits of 70-75 mph, some were 80. Out west some states either had no limit, or one or two had signs that read 100 mph. At least a few people "said" they seen one. At any rate, by todays standards the 400 SA is stone age. While it was state of the art in 1960, by todays standards it has horrible brakes, suspension, and tires. A new Ford Crown Vic is probably safer at those speeds today.

When we traveled when I was young, everyone was flying way over the "limit". If the sign said 70, 90 was the norm. 75 mph speed limit signs generally had everyone rolling around 95 and 100 mph. Living most of my young life in Duluth, and having family in Minneapolis, had us running back and forth almost monthly, and rolling at 100 mph back and forth was pretty common. Until the national 55 mph speed limit was enacted, only one speeding ticket was ever recieved by anyone in our family, and that was to my cousin who was clocked at 117 in his Buick Electra. I think it was a $25 fine back then. No court appearance required. We could talk at length about it all day, as to how safe you are in a 1969 Buick Electra at 120 mph on bias ply tires not wearing seat belts, buts thats how it was folks, thats how people moved. Me, standing on the floor of the back seat hanging onto the front seat, whistling along at 100 watching daddy drive and half the time being "passed" by other "daddies" doing the same thing. My old 308 can just about exceed 100 mph in 3rd gear. Hell, I can get it up to 100 barely giving it any throttle, just a lil right foot and let her wind up, the lil girl wants to fly. If I were forced to drive 50 mph it seems to like 4th gear better, and third if i roll 40 or slower. She just wants to run off like a wild lil horse.

But, one last thing, the FCA has as one of its oaths, to present your Ferrari as a representation of what it was, and to drive it, always under safe conditions, as God and Enzo intended. I dont think either one would like to see us puttering around in 5th gear at 45 mph lugging the motor over at 2500 rpm, fouling our plugs, and looking basically retarded driving the silly thing wearing our Ferrari emblazoned clothes and driving shoes. At that point we may as well scrap them and shred them and forget the whole darn thing.

I appologise for not recalling the author, but I have saved this poem that a fellow enthusiast wrote some 10 years ago....

Oh Ferrari!

Oh Ferrari, thou red raging avatar,
thou four wheeled Mona Lisa


Running hard through glens and dales I make love to thee
with carressing hands and thrusting feet
and glory in the all enveloping love expressed in your song


Resting in my own garage made a palace by your presence
I am humbled by your timeless beauty,
playing eternal Pygmalion to your Galatea


Yea, I will worship thee with cresent wrenches
I will annoint your seats with precious oils
and rub your skin with holy balms until it gleams
brighter than diamonds beneath a Maranello sun


Oh Ferrari!

Oh Ferrari, take me now
back to the dream
back again to open roads where every route lies through Elysium



And I will set you free!

 

Smart on the cops part because speedo's are exaggerated; they are legally limited to an error of no more than 10% greater than the actual vehicle speed and no less than 0% (it can't show you going slower than you really are, even if you were to have larger outside diameter tires on your car).

But, yeah the unofficial Michigan highway speed limit is 85 mph, 70 mph is merely suggested. If you get going in a large group of cars, you can *maybe* get it up to 90-100 mph without cops worrying about anything.

Tim

 

You can thank the Ohio National Guard for the "photo opportunity."

 

1. Uhh, yes, I know that about Wiki, that's why I made the parenthetical comment.

2. Yes, "The" Posse Comitatus. I don't know if the PC is very active back east, but they sure are in pockets around the west, and they are not as "obscure" as you imply.

3. And yes, I know about the Posse Comitatus Act, but the Act is NOT what I was referring to.

4. Also, I was not referring to the debate about the DHS's proposals (which, with respect to the possibility of using military force on a civilian populace, are extremely dangerous).

5. See 2 above. Further, they are much more than a "group of religious vigilantes." Technically, however, they would likely deny that they are a "group" at all.

6. See 2 and 5 above. But again, as stated, I referred to Posse Comitatus, not as the Act, but as a collection of people sharing a view that virtually no taxes or regulations are "constitutional." Those shared views often include not recognizing traffic laws and licensing statutes, and often extend to various other positions mentioned in the Wiki entries and elsewhere.

7. What reminds you of RL's broadcasts? The reference to the Posse Comitatus? What, you think RL's a "member?" You think I'm claiming RL's a member?

8. Poisoning the well? "Logical fallacies such as reductio ad Hitlerum, wherein an idea is unduly dismissed or rejected on ground of it being associated with persons generally considered 'evil.'" (I know, I rearranged your punctuation, but my grammar teacher wouldn't let me leave it alone).

Well, let's look at the thread so far.

Guy gets nailed for doing 60 over and is surprised that he went to jail. (Who knows, the guy appears to be surprised that he was stopped, let alone ticketed).

Guy mentions that he is an ex-GI. (And it gets mentioned again and again - who knows, maybe he was in that helicopter (nice Photoshop work) previously chasing speeders himself).

Other guys jump in and say "golly, it just ain't fair."

Then, other guys start complaining about the general loss of freedoms.

Then, what do you know? The thread quickly becomes a forum for people complaining about taxes, government authority, the constitutionality of drivers licenses, the errant judiciary, etc., etc.

Anyone who just happens to ask, "well, what did you expect the cop to do, give you an award?" is suggested to be an "ultraliberal" (and probably a pedophile to boot). Also, maybe that person even gets accused of something worse: not owning a Ferrari (whew, thank God I do, so I beat that bullet), or somehow not supporting the Ferrari cause and heritage. I forget, what model Ferrari does Nick own?????

Seems to me, the thread reflects a lot of what "the" Posse Comitatus brings to the table.

So, the alleged "logical fallacies" and "poisoning of the well" pretty much started from the thread's inception.

Finally, with respect to Hitler, I have no idea who, what flag, or how anyone on this thread salutes, nor do I care.

Simper Fi!!! (Yah, that's right - simper)

-([:0

 

That quote (grammar and all) was a cut and paste from Wiki.

The thread so far is (with numerous digressions) a discussion of the use of jail time as a penalty for speeding relative to other crimes.

This rapidly polarized into a debate over acceptance or awareness of the increasing government dictates over the day-to-day aspects of individuals' lives.

You then compare a concern for government excesses to a group that believes that the government has already fallen into the hands of "enemies" (by their definition) and consider their actions to be resistance.

When I saw the Rush shows, I remember thinking that the media was presenting the conservative view in an over-the-top fashion that would make it indigestible -- like having Rush wear floppy shoes and a big red nose.

Or like comparing an open public review of government actions to a "lunatic fringe" group.

I could, alternatively, point out a comparison to Thomas Jefferson, who ran on the platform that the Federal government had grown too large -- in 1800.

We are examining the topic of Locke's second treatise, on law and the state of nature:

The crux of the conflict seems to be the notion of whether this is a victimless crime.

There are those who point out all the things that might have happened.

There are those who point out that those things happen below the speed limit, too, but didn't happen here.

The many viewpoints in an open society will naturally bring extremes to the Bell curve in an open public debate.

But trying to associate either argument with saints or sinners is spin-doctoring, not discussion.

 

Great post Paul! Couldn't agree more!

The problem is the road is filled with retards who can't drive, in crappy unsafe cars, just waiting to have another accident, regardless of the speed they're going.

It's too bad exotic owners and racing license holders can't get an exemption license.

In Australia, the default limit in built up areas was reduced to 50km/h a few years ago, 60km/h on main roads, with the fastest country roads posted at 110km/h.

My exemption idea would allow the holders to exceed these speeds while exercising sound judgement, due care and under safe circumstances. Undergo some tests, pay some $$$, including higher insurance costs most likely, and away you go.

In the 50km/h zones with no traffic and wide roads, 70km/h is quite safe in my opinion.

If you're travelling on a 60km/h road with no visible traffic, you could exceed the limit and travel at, say 80km/h, depending on weather, etc. If you're on a wide, smooth multi-lane highway, you could exceed the 110 limit and travel significantly in excess of the posted limit. 150km/h seems quite reasonable.

Again, these speeds are just those which I think are reasonable under most circumstances I've experienced. The speeds themselves should ultimately be left up to driver discretion.

Abuse of the license could be met with severe penalties. For example, some idiot who crashes his 360 at 140km/h in a 50 zone.

Restrictions I would impose on who could apply for the license:

- Must have full license.
- Been driving for at least 2 years.
- 21 or older, unless holder of national level or international level racing license.
- No record of loss of license, road accident which you were found responsible for involving injury or death, drink driving or violent crime offences within the past 4 years.

 

Ah yes, but in France the alcohol limit of 0.08% is a *minimum* ;-)

 

Nothing but nothing would make me live in usa because of these silly speed restrictions. Pls. kindly explain to me , you study hard, work hard do everything necessary all your life to buy your dream ferrari , only to drive it at maximum 55mph? How can you sleep at night.

live somewhere else !

 

Ahh yes, but we are the land of the free and home of the brave, no? Maybe we should alter our mottos some.

But to be fair, Virginia is a state within our country, and does not represent the nation as a whole. I live in the north central US, and only secondary roads today are at 55 mph, and many are coming to be 60 and 65 mph. All limited access roads are 65, and freeways are 70. Generally you have a 5 mph overlimit "fudge factor" so 75mph on the freeway is a relatively safe speed to keep you from trouble. This is Minnesota, and I doubt very much more than a expensive speeding ticket, or possibly a reckless driving charge would result from being over 100 mph. And the reckless could probably be nulled as long as you were in open country and it was daytime. Obviously anyone doing any excessive speed in congested areas needs to be stopped, no matter what country they live in. And at night, anything over 70 is really asking for danger. A Deer could really ruin your night.

 

But keep in mind Paul that a year ago on Oct 1 a new law went into place that states being caught over 100mph is an automatic 6 month suspension now. So the key would be to negotiate with the officer who has pulled you over. From stories from my brother in law (St. Paul officer) not much negotiating is going on with the new law....

 

Will you be able to chat to us during jail time...???

Man, jail for speeding. that's it I'll buy a 1955 Jaguar XK140 instead of a Ferrari when I move to California....

 

Why not get the "original" - a XK120 without the crease/ridge line running (ruining?) the hood.

Mark

 

I didnt know about that one. Hmmmm. What about Wisconsin, South Dakota???

 

I did want to aknowledge something that I said, that may have been taken the wrong way, concerning non owners of Ferrari. It was not my intent to claim you have no opinion, heck, I was once a opinionated non-owner myself. In fact, it was joining into discussions with other owners of Ferrari that got me to ante up and jump onto the ride. I spent almost 10 years as a non owner on the Flist and I always was good at sticking my foot in my mouth.

I was simply refering to the non-Ferrari enthusiasts who join Fchat, and or do not subscribe, and would never consider owning a Ferrari for various religious and or political views, yet come here to thumb thier noses at us and cause conciet among us.

I also must say I am impressed with the restraint Rob and the other moderators have shown in allowing this thread to remain public. Perhaps we (The tifosi) can show others that we can appreciate these machines the way they were intended, yet in a safe and responsible manner, and that we are not all a group of crazies out to cause death and mayhem on the public roads. And I would also like to call upon those who own the worlds super cars, like Enzo's, Mclarens, Lambos, etc., to please stop crashing these things at high speed on public roads, before we are all locked up and drug off for the implied consent from ownership. The last thing I, or anyone else needs are more fingers pointed at us for being crazy Ferrari owners. And if anyone knows of anyone who is not on Fchat, who owns something superfast, please pass this along.

Forza!

 

For the record I love law enforcement, yes I surely do. They are here for our protection. I was caught speeding in excess of 100 (way in excess) and an officer who had to chase me down over miles of open desert highway was kind enough to write me up for a mere 85mph violation. He was, and many are, car fanatics, but he fairly assessed my car's capabilities and supposed mine, but had doubts about the rest of the travelers on this road.

Then I was pulled over once so the officer could admire the car. I love those guys despite their strange sense of humor.

1199 Foundation Rules!

 

I also dont have an inherent problem with law enforcement, they just simply do as they are directed. Its the uneducated people everyone keeps electing to various offices I have the problem with. They claim they will uphold the constitution, but very few have ever read it, nor could they understand it if they did. It was intentionally written so that anyone with a modest education could understand it, which should make one wonder how educated we are today by comparison.

 

The problem with the constitution is that, by its very simplicity makes it open to interpretation. Take the 2nd amendment:

"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed. "

Pretty darned simple, and you'd think impossible to misinterpret. But there are folks out there dumb enough to interpret this as meaning that only members of a militia should have the right to bear arms....

 

The funny part is that the 2nd was intended to be a bit vague.

The original drafts of that amendment, as seen in the PA and VA drafts of amendments, weren't about whether the people would be allowed to have arms -- that was a "given". The debate was whether the government would be allowed to have any. The proposals were to ban standing armies in time of peace, other than state controlled militias.

The 2nd that got ratified was a compromise that permits the government to maintain the military. It includes much of the phrasing of the drafts to ban armies, but omits the actual banning of a federal military. (An army to keep watch over the western frontier was considered necessary (somebody had to ride in "in the nick of time" in westerns ).)

But then, that's all "Original Intent" stuff, again.

 

I hope all those chastising this guy for speeding have never gone 100+. If they have, they are hypocrites.

The guy didn't say he was doing 140 weaving in and out of traffic during rush hour - maybe it was a 3am high speed run? I've done some of those in my life. I had my Viper up to 175+ on I-95 coming up from Rhose Island to Boston at around 4:30am when the sun was rising and I was all alone on that stretch of road. I maxed out my R1 at around 170 on a momentarily empty stretch of highway then slowed back to around 80 when I came upon another group of cars. I also briefly did 105mph on the way home from work today. There was a small herd of cars blocking the highway doing 65mph when most do 80. They were in 3 of the 4 lanes... my exit was coming up, so I pushed it up to 105 for about 10 seconds, passed em all, got over (one lane at a time - not a full highway veer) to the slow lane and took my exit.

When I was younger I did a lot more than I do now - I haven't had a ticket in many years, and I drive a fair number of miles. A combination of common sense and mellowing with age.

I realize that there is a chance I would get popped at some point due to the law of averages. I have twice before. Once for 110 in a 55 - that was stupid, many years ago I was racing my Corvette against a guy in a BMW on the highway. I was cited for reckless, it was dropped by the DA to speeding and I paid around $1300 in fees. That hurt - bad. I was 18 and had no money - worked a summer to pay that one. I got caught coming back from a Viper race doing 105 in a 65. Some idiot ricer was trying to goad me into racing and went from being annoying to being dangerous (swerving into my lane and braking). So I kicked it up a notch and left him - cruised for a minute at 100+ and got dinged by a cop - he was real cool, told me to keep it below 85 or he's obligated to ticket. The road was empty, I could have gone much faster. Why is 75 to 90mph "reasonable", but 90 to 105 insanity? Why are we infatuated with the third digit?

I fully believe that reckless driving should be prosecuted. I've seen idiots weaving in and out of traffic to race one another. They tend to be 20 or younger, backwards baseball cap in their lowered Civic in primer with a fartcan exhaust. That at 80mph is reckless. A guy out at 3am who kicks it up to 120 on the freeway is not.

Around here, there is a much much bigger problem with people running red lights, not paying attention at all to controlling their vehicle, crossing the centerline in turns, blocking two lanes of traffic by insisting they pull into an already full street so they don't lose their green-going-amber light and more. I never ever ever see anyone getting pulled for that - only speeding.

 

*raises right had*

Repeat after me, I am a hypocrite.

2nd amendment stuff, ... Don't ya love how the Clinton administration tried to tell the Supreme court that the 2nd amendment did not mean for the people to have guns? (Man, this thread was hijacked to China and back!)

 

Stay tuned for "Speeding to Walmart for Chinese Guns", coming up on the "War and Peace" channel.

(The Neilsons are in -- we're edging out the butt hair thread, but still way behind the bikini thread. )

 

Plain and simple: We should institute a program that is the public highway equivalent of the FIA superlicense. That, and true testing of skills for everyday joes- not some lame road test followed by a written test of 15 different road signs. Bottom line is that over 1/2 the drivers on the road don't belong on it.

 

Bottom line here in the States.

Most people pay their home states between 20 & 50 bucks to become licensed "drivers".

You have to spend a few thousand in Germany to get a license. They get the Autobahn and 180 miles per hour, traffic permitting.

We get 65 MPH. You get what you pay for.


Check the tires on most of the sports cars you see on the street and they look like they have been driven by pvssies. Of course to hear the person behind the wheel tell you, they drive "aggresively" every chance they get. Don't know where, their tires don't show it.

Speed enforcement is nothing but revenue collection plain and simple.

Would any of you pay 500K for a 3 bedroom house and be told you can only use one bedroom? I don't think so, you would whine like the French.

Yet some of you go out and spend or lease or make payments on a 180K sports car and only get to use a small portion of it's performance. You bltch and complain on internet forums about speed laws,yet nobody does a damn thing.

And for the guy who says we need the police for protection, what are you French? It would never occur to me to have to call someone to help me out in a crisis other than my family. It was the first thing I told my neighbors when we bought out latest house.






It's mercy ,compassion and forgiveness I lack ....
Not rationality.

 

Yeppers. I'm due for my third driving suspension, and I don't even speed anymore (BC, canada). Had a couple minor tickets a few years back add up with noise violations and POOF there goes the license. Then my insurance expired but I didn't know so that took my license away again right after I got it back, and so on... I've paid about $500 each time to get my license back and I just got another ICBC notice for $300 for various tickets over the past year. So i'll end up paying $300 before I can renew my insurance just in time for my court date where i'll lose and get screwed again. IN ADDITION, the cops gave me an inspection notice for my exhaust on my old car and ICBC will no longer insure it.. not even for a day pass.

This all started from a 25kph over the limit ticket in 2002. It screwed me because the points just sit on the license. I have a glovebox with around 12 tickets now. I've paid at least $3000 to ICBC for fines and whatnot and I've never actually been given anything above the basic minimal speeding fine. Bloody crazy if you ask me.