ceramic brakes on F599

I *have* driven in/out of London on a daily basis for several years, and understand completely your rational decision to go with steel brakes. Some dolt on here was harping on and on about Europeans driving their cars harder than Americans. I guess that's true if you define "hard" as sitting on the M4/A4 waiting for the car in front of you to move another 10 feet ;-) But, if you're going to be in that traffic, what a car to be "stuck" in !!

 

I am willing to bet that anyone really sweating out resale value on their 599, is not going to be actively tracking their 599. While I am not fully aware of the history of Ferrari ceramic brakes, the technologies long-term durability on the track in questionable. There are plenty of examples of CS's with flaking rotors, well below the 10k mile level. Admittedly, the technology is getting better, so this will likely become less and less true.

Outside of the Ferrari community and in the Porsche community, most people who ordered PCCB's for "resale" value and who track their cars, remove the rotors/pads and replace them with steel rotors and appropriate pads for this very reason. The same holds true for those that get their cars used. I should note that one appears to pay little in the way of a premium for PCCB.

Also, the last time I checked, a Ferrari was a performance car and the stock brakes are pretty capable. Assuming you replace the brake fluid with race spec fluid and more appropriate pads, I am willing to bet that steel rotors will work for most, especially those what track their cars one/twice a year.

You might also want to ask your local Ferrari dealer what their take is on "flaking /cracked" PCCB's on cars that have been tracked... Might change your mind.

 

The technology is well proven, both in the aviation world and the most-demanding "track" environment ever created -- F1, for many years. It is only relatively new for consumer high-end performance cars. Both rotors and pads are much longer-lasting with ceramics compared to steel. Sure, there are occasional failures with ceramic brakes. But then, steel brakes aren't exactly any better. I had a QX56 SUV that had to have its front rotors changed THREE times in 6 months from warping....and no, it wasn't tracked ;-)

 

An interesting debate - I've also commuted in my CS and am waiting the call to spec my 599 (should be around year end for spring next year).

Also being a brit living in the US its funny to see this debate. I've lived and commuted in London, and swore about 10 years ago never to ever take the tube again So I lived in central London and commuted to "the city" by car.

I still use my Fcars to commute - not every day but they do get used for that.

I have thought that maybe I don't need the CC brakes on the 599, but they work so well on the CS, and they've survived "my usage" really well. I killed the steel rotors on my previous 360 in 10K miles of enthusiastic and occasional track use. Whilst I probably won't use the 599 much on the track, I'm definitely getting the CC brakes again.

I'm also going to go the full bose/CF/cool-stuff route also, if one is going to eat 30K+ a year in depreciation, one may as well do it properly!

 

Aye aye!

I'll probably tick that box too .... but it's a personal thing. "Eleven faaasand quid" is chunk of change. Get it if you feel it's worth it to you ... simple as that really.

 

Please, you not driving an F1 car. Further, F1 teams spend $1mm in minutes on parts and other things that road cars would never view as "disposable". The point of the ceramic brakes is that were sold on their long-term durability.

Your QX56 had to have its brakes changed because it weights 6k pounds and has grossly inadequate brakes on it, especially for the sorts of speeds and abuse most SUV's seem to travel and take. Does it have the stock wheels on it?

Now as for "occasional" rotor failures, are we talking street or track. On the street, I would agree that their failure is rare, as they seldom reach or even approach their limits. On the track, I suspect their failure rate is higher than occasional. I think the point here is that your can get 3/4/5 sets of steel rotors for one set of ceramic.

 

I made sure I got ceramics, and as for resale, unless your keeping your car 3-4 years its not going to make a damn bit of difference anyways since you will sell it back to the dealer for sticker+.

 

when buying a car to cruise around and have a little fun , i think that when money is not an issue, why worry about resale?

 

OK chaps. I'm sure you'll be delighted to know CCBS wins the day.......or, how about I've no choice inthe matter.

It seems my attempt to be rational about these blessed brakes was for nowt. My dealer re-contacted me on Monday and said "Ferrari are at the moment only willing to import to the UK 599's with CCBS. If you want steels then you 'aint going to get your car for January/February 07".

Put like that I didn't really have a choice. So CCBS I will have. Strange that they call it an "option".

 

Ferrari are pretty well-known for this. Early US F430 spiders were "bundled" with an extra year warranty for an extra $6k. My 360 Modena was delivered with a CD-changer I didn't want. But an extra $20k for brakes ... ouchies!

 

Finally somebody came to their senses. You can't put less than superior brakes on that car!

 

I had the impression that this was probably the same in the US, no-one's said it per-se, but there have been remarks along the lines of "you'll obviously be getting the CC brakes again"...

Oh well, better than being asked to pay "market price" IMO.

 

Not to split hairs but... aviation and F1 use carbon-carbon and it is well proven. These latest generation street pieces are carbon-ceramic and are somewhat less proven. I just measured 360CS carbon rotors today and was impressed by their light weight! The benefits are clear but the cost is high and they are not stone-axe reliable. Would I drive a car with them, yes! Would I track a car with them, yes! But I would keep an eye on them after every event. We are developing direct replacements in iron because a number of CS owners have contacted us looking for them. They track the cars and have worn them out. After they go to the dealer and get the bill they call me...

The QX56 is a WELL KNOWN brake destroyer. It has a poorly designed system and Nissan is I'm sure eating a few warranty claims. Just goes to show compromises are made all the time and the mindset of "the factory can do it better than you" can be a misconception. Cost is king, and sometimes the king puts designers and engineers in their place.

FWIW

Martin

 

I got CCB's on my 599 which arrives in about 3 weeks. I have CCB's on my CGT and I can't imagine being without them. I spent big money on brakes for my 550 (19" wheels, 380's on the front, 355's on the back) and I never regretted it for a moment. They saved me a few times and gave me a lot of confidence the rest of the time. I am so happy to be able to get killer brakes from the factory on the 599. Seems to me that the CCB's and 20" challenge wheels are the must have options. I am starting to feel the same way about the sports seats. I also changed the seats in my 550 and am very happy to have a great factory option available.

 

Easier to pick up the pieces!
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