I Am Truly Bummed ***SPOILER***

And what you have all lost in this is, FA was closing on him at a pretty good clip, FA may have won, MS would have been second, and who knows what would have happened in Brazil ?

Yes, it would have been nice to come down to that, but it probably won't, life goes on.


Yes, statistically speaking MS in the 'greatest' driver of all time, but that in itself does not mean he IS the 'greatest' driver of all time, that title is subjective to each person and what they view makes a person 'great'.

Who is the greatest QB of all time ?

Who is the greatest guard of all time ?

Who is the greatest boxer of all time ?

Who is the greatest pitcher of all time ?

Who is the greatest goaltender of all time ?

Who is the greatest soccer player of all time ?

Who is the greatest indy car driver of all time ?

Betcha each of those has a lot of different answers.........

 

Very well stated. Saying that, there is no doubt that MS is the greatest driver of his generation, one of the greatest of all times. They way he rebuilt Ferrari around him will always mark him as a great champion that he is. The fact that he wouldn't race another great champion in the same car will be the only question mark about his career. By the way this is what Bernie Eccelstone said, not me.

 

There is still hope that the crappy renault engine will blow! If Michael wins then he will be WC! I agree i think he is the best of all time, sure he has some faults as do all of us, but overall he is a true champion!

 

It must not be too crappy....... It's done well enough to (probably) give a guy two WDC's.

 

QB - statistically it's Dan Marino, but most folks give Joe Montana the nod.

Guard - some say Bob Cousy, some say Nate Archibald, some say Magic Johnson, some say Alan Iverson.

Pitcher - I THINK statistics say Roger Clemons, some say Nolan Ryan, some say Bob Gibson, some say Sandy Koufax

Goaltender - some say Dryden, some say Roy, some same Parent, some say Vachon, some say Billy Smith, 'most' say Tretiak.

Soccer - some say Miradona, some say Beckham, most say Pele'.

Indy Car - some say Foyt, some say Al Unser Sr., some say Bobby Unser, some say Rick Mears...

And if your dad did any of these sports, he would be the greatest of all time, so it's subjective to what you think makes a person 'the greatest'.

 

Ive heard this from several people on a few different forums (and Pat Symonds I believe), but I just dont see it.

These are the gaps between MS and FA for each of the laps after MS's first stop to his second:
+5.426 +5.523 +5.669 +5.506 +5.182 +5.227 +4.975 +4.576 +4.292 +4.269 +5.137 +5.506 +5.487 +5.969 +5.666 +5.935 +8.801 (FA is pitting) +25.930

I really dont see how he is catching him at all. Looks completely steady to me, and considering that Michael had a least an extra lap of fuel (possibly more; I think they called him in early just because they could and he would still be in front of FA) I just dont see FA catching or passing him.

But this point is moot obviously.

 

Senna's worshipped like a God today because he's dead. had he been alive today, i bet there's lots of Senna haters as much as there's Schumi haters today. i'm not making negative remarks about senna here, with all due respect. i looked up to this guy too.

but at the end of the day. both of these ppl are humans. man. they make mistakes. they are not perfect. they have emotions. thats why caused them to make silly cheat moves like those.

i think only robots will drive w/out emotions and w/out doing those silly mistakes. we all witnessed, last week, altho FA did not do this on track, he still made a mistake and made some bad comments about the team in public. thats not right. but then again, put urselves in shoes. he's depressed, emotional, and frustrated to see a 25 point gap come to nothing. it happens.

 

Twice? Try once. Prost turned in on Senna in 89 to win the title. Senna returned the favor in spades in 90. Gentlemanly? Nope but fair is fair. MS turned in on Hill then JV for no other reason that he panicked and wanted to take them out so he could win. Two totally different things. This is why MS gets called a cheat, he's a great driver and should not have to stoop so low.

 

Motorsports allows for a logical conclusion:

Motorsport - The candidate for the greatest racer has to come from the pinnacle of motorsport!

F1 is the Pinnacle of motorsport!

Michael Schumacher has won 7 F1 world championships! He is the greatest racer ever!

 

Your stupidity and ignorance apparently knows no bounds...

At the time of his death, Jimmy Clark was statistically the most successful Gran Prix driver with 25 wins.

At the time of his retirement, Jackie Stewart was statistically yhe most successful Gran Prix driver with 27 wins.

At the time of his retirement, Alain Prost was statistically the most successful Gran Prix driver with 51 wins.

At the time of his death, Senna was statistically the second most successful Gran Prix driver with 41 wins and was widely expected to overtake Prost eventually.

Schumacher is now the most statistically the most successful driver at the time of his retirement. As history has CLEARLY demonstrated, that won't last forever.

You, sir, are a buffoon. I feel no compulsion to treat you with the same respect I accord well-informed and intelligent contributors such as Gilles27, Senna1994 or Tifosi12. Perhaps someday you will get your head out of your ass and maybe then I will consider you as more than Imperial83-Lite but until then...

 

Look how u talk to people, and u expect to get respect? ur such a rude person. calling ppl names. i bet ur surprise to hear this from a 20 yr old. oh yea...i forgot...u'll probably call me an ass too..so what diff does it makes? i always enjoy having some nice debates with the names u mentioned above, including Luis. i learn something everytime we have these debates. they don;t call each other names like u do, and expect to be respected.

 

Remy:

I don't expect you to pay attention to all my posts but were you to, you would see that there are quite a few people here whose opinions I respect a great deal and a select few that I don't, chief among them are tifosiron and imperial83. Impy is on my ignore list and I am through with him because I find it more productive to debate quantum theory with my soup spoon than I do to discuss F1 with that idiot. I don't insult everyone nor am I argumentative with everyone, I have had my exchanges with you and a couple of others. You can see what you choose to see but you ought to do a little more research before you tar me with such a broad brushstroke. There are quite a few people on here with whom I have had very informative and enjoyable discussions.

PS Thanks for pointing out to me that you are just 20, I hadn't noticed. I generally pay the opinions of someone so young very little mind. I find that individuals that young simply don't have sufficient life experience to make worthwhile comments but you have had a few posts that I enjoyed reading.

 

thanx. i apologize if i said anything that did not sound right to u. have a nice day.

 

This is fantastic. I get to say what I want but you cannot respond because you apprently have me on your ignore list!

Your responses to any meaningful positive discussion are always negative and tend to tarnish Ferrari and Michael Schumacher. I guess you are just sadistic and cannot tolerate the positive emotions people have for Ferrari and Michael.

Michael is the most popular racer in F1. Ferrari is the most popular team in F1. The surveys speak for themselves. I know that Michael is the greatest racer ever and no will be able to replace him as far as F1 is concerned. His philanthopy, sportsmanship and dedication are unparalleled!

I know that I am joined by millions and millions of true Ferrari fans when I say that he will be missed and we all are sad that the championship was lost due to a fault in the engine! If he had been overtaken or had crashed out due to a driving error then it would have been a different story!

I also know you read every word that I type!

 

Exactly my opinion!

 

Well said Tifosiron...well said. Couldn't agree more about being personally disappointed. I wanted that for him so bad...
Not to mention I never got to see him in person...I missed him by one year. Im going to Indy next year. When he said he was retiring at Monza, I must say I was less interested in the race.

Indeed the starting grid will be missing something...

 

I have been so depressed / saddened /disheartened all in one w/how the race ended.
For 2 days i've felt this way!

I was thrilled to get on here (actually my husband put me on here to show me i wasn't alone feeling this way)

I really can't imagine watching F1 next year w/out Michael.
A true champion. He is what Michael Jordan was to basketball....true talent w/true class for the sport and life.

My first Formula One race was in 2000 in Monza, Italy....where else to get addicted. I was pregnant w/our son, ENZO ....(who is now 5) who still reminds me that he was at that Race too (in my belly) but he "was" there!

Our son all of 5 yrs of age stayed up w/us late Sat nt to watch the race too. He is addicted as much as my husband and i. WE will ALL miss Michael sooooo.

I couldn't pick a better sports "hero" for my son to admire. Enzo drives his toy ferrari around the house just about every other day w/his ferrari gear on ...and yelling ohhh Michael Schumaker just made another pass etc etc.

I haven't felt this passionate about a team or sport/player since the Bulls team and Michael Jordan...true world champions that come around every century or so....and we the lucky few have had the opportunity to view their magic.

THANKS Schumi for all the great years and for giving our 5 yr old a true hero to look up to. You will be GREATLY missed.

sentire la mancanza....

 

If we count GP victories, you are right. But I think the number of wins is misleading, because the number of GPs per season has been increasing over the years. In the fifties, there was sometimes only 6 GPs per year, in the sixties maybe 10, but this has increased in the 80s and still now.
We are approaching 20 GPs per year now, so a good, very good driver has more chances to score wins.

But the number of championships is a real indicator of a driver's worth, because it shows how many years he has been dominant in F1.

Schumacher is therefore the most successful driver, statistically, that is objective.

Some say he is the 'greatest', that is subjective. We cannot really compare drivers who raced at different eras, on different cars, under different rules, on different circuits, etc...

 

exactly...everyone, including Renault, knew that Ferrari was the team to beat at this point...and barring what just happened, Renault just didn't have the speed to beat Ferrari down the stretch. At this point in the season, all teams put forth their best cars, so to see Michael concede the championship like that truly hurts. A "freak" occurrence if you will. Without such incidents, no one can possibly say that Renault would've taken the Championship. Fernando has always griped that he wanted to beat Michael toe to toe, and he still hasn't and won't ever now that michael's retiring. Just as last year the tire rules gave Renault the title, this year they didn't "win" it either, they simply received it.

 

You don't have to be such ******! apparently some people on here just don't know how to state opinions without insulting those that they oppose. Chill out y'all!

 

I agree completely with your views on Michael, but I'm sure F1 will keep you coming back. I felt the same way after Senna's death and thought I would never watch another race. However, in large part to Michael's amazing talent, I stayed interested.

Next year we will finally see Kimi's talent on proper display when he will have a competetive car that doesn't break dow 75% of the time. It will be great to watch as he walks off with the Championship and leaves Fernando crying about conspiracy theories and how his team supports Lewis Hamilton more than him...

 

thats a very very nice story! i'm sure your son will be thankful one day. or perhaps, i won;t be surpise seeing him drive for the Scuderia one day

 

Apparently my point went straight over your head, hardly surprising considering how weak your mental faculties have proven to be.

My point (follow along with me, I will write slowly just for you) is that ALL of them were the most successful drivers of all time at the time of their
leaving F1, NOT that they were statistically more successful than MS. Every single one of them had their records matched eventually and so will Schumacher. Probably sooner than you think

I know this is a difficult concept for someone as mentally challenged as yourself but do try to follow along...