Greetings, I have been purchasing quite a few tools while working on my 328. Most of the tools that I have been purchasing are high-quality measurement tools. For most specialty tools I would say go to AutoZone and borrow them. However, I don't feel comfortable with the precision of many their tools such as torque wrenches, which has led me to buying my own. The problem is that I just don't use them very often and it feels like a bit of a waste. I am proposing that we start a Tool Rental Program. Here are my thoughts so far. 1. It would be nice to have a user feedback area. Once an FChatter returns your tools, you leave a feedback comment in this thread. 2. I think a deposit is appropriate. This may be an assumption, but the person giving the tool is probably a standing member at FChat so I think that the "borrower" should pay a deposit. For a newer or unknown member, a 100% deposit should be considered. For everyone else, I recommend a 50-100% deposit. I believe that PayPal is a good method for deposit. It can be refunded when the tools are returned for no fee (at least last time I checked). Another fee to consider is the shipping fees to the borrower. That should be included in the transacted price. 3. You may choose to charge a rental fee. This could be for proper calibration or normal wear of the tool. This is of course at the discretion of the tool owner. 4. This thread would be a great place to request tools as well. If someone doesnt want to divulge their tool inventory, then just responding to requests would be a great idea. I will begin by listing the specialty tools that I own and their value (for deposit info) 1. Snap-on digital torque wrench. Adjustable for all torques on a Ferrari (that I know of) $300 2. Snap-on seal press dies. Does not include a press, but there is a perfect size for 328 cam seals. $70 3. Snap-on dial indicator with clamp mounts. Great for many types of measurement $125 4. Snap-on kit for measuring TDC, BDC etc. Extender to work perfect for hemi heads. Designed to work with the dial indicator above. $100 5. Ground-down cam wrench that I made for the front cams on a 328. $20 ($20 because I dont want to spend an hour in front of the grinder again) 6. Homemade 328 cam locks. Mine look horrible, but they work. Not nearly as nice as other that I have seen, but hey, I live in Arkansas. $10 That is all of the specialty tools that I own. I will say that I will be using these tools for the next two weeks from this posting to re-time my cams and fix my oil leak (again). Feedback and suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Gene
interested in # 6 if they will work on a QV..can we see a pic to tellif it will work ..I assume I send you via paypal 10 + shipping to me and when you get the tool back you paypal me back the 10.
I'm not sure if they will work on a QV, as I haven't seen the inside of that engine. As far as the money deal, you have it correct. However, I will be using my camlocks for the next week or so. Gene
This is a really excellent idea. The concept of a tool loaner program for FChatters has been discussed here before. For example, the ring nut tools for the various sized specialty ring nuts on Ferraris are something very few people own, but only need once in a while....and they are expensive. Like the ring nut on the steering hub or the transfer gears. Another way to approach this would be to just start a thread and let everyone chime in on what particular specialty tools they have that they would not mind loaning out. Once we have collected the data in the thread, we make a set of rules and a sticky. If you need a tool, you consult the sticky, find out who has it, PM him and arrange to borrow it. Obviously shipping costs both ways are paid by the borrower, and maybe some kind of a deposit via paypal that is refunded. I do not believe in the need to rent them out, but I suppose rental fees could be negotiated too. Around here in New England we Fchatters all know each other and loan our tools to each other all the time. Hell, I probably have some of Verell's stuff in the garage right now! Birdman
Birdman, That was my intention with this thread. I was hoping that others would post what tools they would be ok with loaning. Maybe my marketing was bad (Thread title). Thoughts? Gene
Just let it ride.....maybe slow right now on maintenance 'cuz everyone's driving. Come winter is lots more tech operations, for me.
I would loan out: 1. Ring nut tools for transmission (I made this) 2. Ring nut tool for timing gear (I bought this important one) 3. Ring nut tool for Steering wheel (I made this) 4. Tune up (valve shim removal tools) for 2V ferrari (I made them) I also have tons of other hand tools but it is hard to list them all, plus, you really should buy your own wrenches and such. If you are in the Bay area, you are welcome to come by and pick them up.
Thank you very much for adding these tools to the list! I agree, my intentions were for this to be a specialty tool listing as everyone should have a set of hand tools. Thanks again! Gene
I also have the 308 valve shim removal tool, so if anyone in SoCal needs to borrow it, just holler. There are a few other specialized tools, but I haven't seen them recently so they may still be in boxes in the attic I also have an CAN/OBDII reader. These can be borrowed from PepBoys etc, but if you're diagnosing an intermittent problem you might need one for a few days. Again, just holler.
I don't have that many Ferrari-specific tools, but I have a carb synchrometer for the 308 (and I assume many other model carb Ferraris) and a small tool I made for replacing the seal on the slave cylinder of the Mondial clutch that I am happy to loan out. Birdman
Two cents (.02) ... Torque wrenches are the ONLY tool I won't lend to anyone. I will go to their house to torque a series of fasteners before I will let someone else use one of mine (six, at last count__half are in Newton-Meters). Having worked in a metrology lab once, I know how easy it is to blow the calibration on a torque wrench, especially the "clic type" if you continue to pull on them after they yield. The potential for disaster from an under/over torqued crucial fastener isn't worth the savings over having your own (known history) torque wrench. I mean c'mon, if you can afford a Ferrari As for all the unique Ferrari tools, having a share program is an outstanding idea (having purchased over $3k in BMW specific tools, I can relate). Again, just my opinion, yours may differ.
I agree. I also use my torque wrenches often enough that I couldn't really loan one out. Everyone should have a torque wrench. And a lift. Birdman
Anybody else see this lot of Ferrari tools on Ebay? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ferrari-308-Daytona-Dino-Factory-Special-Tools_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6763QQhashZitem140050438078QQihZ004QQitemZ140050438078QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW Might be an opportunity to jump start a FerrariChat tool box for the membership. Bill
I have made a simple but effective little tool that allows you to change the seal in the clutch slave cylinder for the Mondial and Boxer. It's virtually impossible to do without the tool. It has been making the rounds of Fchat and if anyone needs to borrow it, please feel free to PM me. Birdman
Trust is the biggest issue. Who do you trust? Accountability? Suppose a tool is damaged, then what? Post office to blame or the renter? Damages?$? Renter/rentee feedback page (or in their profile)? How long to rent? Both parties MUST leave a paper trail when mailing. A tracking number, sign for receipt, etc. I hate to say it, but someone who's a lawyer should probably chime in for procedures when "things go wrong".
Oh jeez, the minute we get lawyers involved this will get to be too much work to be worth it. I suppose if someone that has never been on this board before and has 3 posts asks to borrow something I might be wary, but any of the regulars I trust. Heck, I know where to find them! (They're always here!) I have never ever had anything but good experiences dealing with Fchatters. Fchatters rule. Birdman
Short of a 15 page rental agreement, trust would probably be the best way to go, and as Birdman said, FChatters rule and he knows where to find them. It is, in reality, very difficult to execute an agreement that would make everyone happy and which would be enforceable. By this I mean there always has to be a "venue" or an agreed upon place wherein any dispute would be resolved. With FChatters spread around the world it would be near impossible to find a suitable venue and the costs to deal within that venue for the affected parties would far exceed the tool's value. The rental concept makes great sense, but in reality, having expensive tools in the toolbox rarely used is the rule rather than the exception. It's probably the only way to go unless FChatters are within a reasonable distance of where the "rentor" resides.
What about a subscription service? I'd gladly pay $20 or so each month if I could have access to the esoteric tools like ring nut wrenches and such. Also, access to documents such as service manuals in electronic format would be great. The cash flow from the subscription would distribute the cost to a reasonable level and cover any costs for lost or damaged tools. Hell, if enough people bought in, we could lease a set of real factory tools! It would be like a Scuderia Ferrari Co-op!
It's funny you mention that. I actually thought about it as a side business. It's probably not a money maker, but it would be fun to have a nice set to look at. On a side note, I have thought about suggesting to Daniel that he rents tools for his customers when they buy specific parts. An example would be cam-locks for cam belts and so on. Gene
Actually, you know, if you think about it, there are a half dozen funky tools that are commonly needed (three different sized ring nut tools, head bolt wrench, etc.) and the total cost to buy them all is probably well under a thousand bucks. We could just take up a collection and buy a set of all these things. Anyone who "buys in" can use them. We would need to agree upon a reasonable length of time that anyone can hold onto any one tool, etc. but I think a gentleman's agreement is fine. We can have "shares" in ownership and those shares could be bought and sold. So if one of the people in the program moves away from Fcar ownership (heresy!) or buys his own tools, he can sell his share in the partnership to someone else. OK, sounds like a pain in the ass. But you know what I mean. Or we can just loan the tools we have. On another note, Verell is looking at having a run of ring nut tools machined and is shooting for a reasonable price by doing it in some volume. So now might be the chance for a bunch of us to get in on cheaper ring nut sockets! Birdman
Hey Birdy, that "shares" actually sounds like a good idea I would propose people could only buy a single share, so maybe it would be more like a one-time subscription fee...? And add a share date (when it was bought by the holder). That way, should two or more people need the same tool, the one with the earlist date "wins". Then the next earliest date gets it next, etc.
