MAF vs MAP sensor?

Well I hate to admit it but I always thought Motecs were the way to go but always hated the company and the apparent complexity. I guess on a really cold January day in Pa. I could always fly Mark out to sunny So. Cal. to tune my Motec. So Mark what do you say? Darn I guess I'll just have to spend the time to figure these things out.

 

Billybob,

ANYONE can use an OEM ECU to make performance mods.

It's just not that hard.

Get 2 or 3 together with common interests, one or two of whom who
understand the basic code of the processor(s) used, and it's cake.

People selling aftermarket ECUs and piggybacks DEPEND on "us" being
"afraid" to work with an OEM ECU.

Jim

 

I'm happy to help with that.. I've already done some "looking at" the 355
and the 348 code.

Jim

 

Thank you! That one file alone that you posted is going to save me 3 weeks of tracing CJNE jumps.

I need to buy you a drink.

 

I agree. Motronic 2.7 in particular is completely programmable for fuel delivery and spark timing based on load and/or rpms (and various temperatures). Ferrari even left us room for new code and fuel maps on their chips.

 

You're welcome.

don't, he's on my ignore list for bad behavior.

Don't buy anything just yet...there maybe hope. The stock ECU is plenty good with the write stuff loaded in.

 

Landshark,

That's why your the man! It is nice to know if I ever get past greasy fingernails and oil in my hair I can look you up to do the clean stuff.

 

Yes. I am not ready to do anything yet. I am actually very interested in seeing Plugzit's project come to fruition. If it does then I think there is hope for me because he and I are just about smart enough to always know which end of a shotgun to hold. So if he/we can figure it out then I will want more power in my 348 since those damn Porsches are always wizzing past me on the racetrack.

 

I too am amazed at the level of technical advice on this thread. This type of project has interested me for many years. I bought a book called "How to Tune and Modify Engine Management Systems" It is detailed in its explainations of how most systems and their parts work, with some modifications to stock systems. I recommend it. The Alfa BB has a few threads of guys setting up MS sytems, some look and run great. No matter what you end up using, I will be watching closely. Redondo Beach isn't that far of a drive, I would love to help if I can.

Have fun

Erik

 

Now, I am wondering if a 355 can go MAP??? Getting rid of that single MAF!

 

of course it can...and should

 

Can it?

Sure.. you'll need to make a few minor mechanical modifications.

Like adding a common vacuum rail for the MAP sensor

Should it?

I don't agree w/ Mark that it is so simple a decision.

You said "single MAF", which means you have an M5.2 car, OBD-II.

To keep it legal (and as you live in CA, that's a big consideration) you'd have
to keep the stock management, add a MAP sensor to it, and then have it
certified by CARB as legal (by testing).

Easier is to add a larger and less restrictive MAF and it only requires the
recalibration of one table in the ECU. The one that converts MAF voltage
into the internal Q variable (kg/hr of airmass).

If you are completely discarding "street legality" it's easier to go Alpha-N
since you have a normally aspirated vehicle.

Jim

 

Ok a larger MAF sounds good to me, can I go with two??

What is "Alpha-N"???

 

You could go w/ two but you'd need external signal conditioners to modify the two signals into one.

Alpha-N is "Throttle Angle/RPM" mapped fuel injection.

It's what you get if/when your MAF is disconnected.

Jim

 

What do you think about what these guys did?

http://www.idaautomotive.com/changing_over_a_maf_to_a_map_sen.htm

 

#1, turbo-charging is entirely different from naturally aspirated. With a turbo you'll get 1 manifold pressure. With 8 tb's you'll get 8.

#2, the direct MAP for MAF replacement that they did only works by chance and custom tuning...you could get the same or better by disconnecting the MAF, throwing the MAP into the garbage can, and custom tuning the load vs rpm map on the ECU chip.

 

Understood that turbo is "different" than "normally" aspirated

I am sure there are lots of TB's with MAP out there. Just noting that the signal may be similar enough to make the leap.
That was just an example for someone who may not have access to ECU chip programing.

 

D'oh! Sorry. Right.

It's a poor man's tune. If you've got a MAP that you can adjust as well as access to a dyno, then you can sort of cobble together a replacement system that will perform (might have "normal driving" challenges, though).

Your ride deserves better.

 

Poor mans tune??? .......now its a "class thing"....good grief!......

 

LOL! I clearly need to drink more when corresponding with ya, mate!

 

or less!!

 

It's some form of "piggyback".

I'm not a fan.

Call it personal prejudice.

Call it 14 years of tuning OEM ECU's professionally.

Jim

PS: MAP sensors are not "easy" with multiple TB's. M = MANIFOLD = the
place between the back of the throttle plate and the back of the intake
valve head(s). You'd need to connect all 4 of those in a 348/355 on
each side together w/ a plenum of some sort connected to the MAP sensor.

 

I agree it is not the "ideal" setup . Even Andial (p-cars) developed a "piggyback" system to increase fuel on the CIS injection for the 930's. They understood that sometimes it is not neccessary to go "all out". We are not not feeding an ultra-modified engine here.

I understand that a MAP sensor may even get too aggressive of a signal that close to the intake valve. There are lots of quick and severe pressure fluctuations there. But manifolding all the throttle bodies together with some lines will neutralize some of that. There are also filters/dampers specifically for that purpose.

There are several affordable user programmable complete ECU systems out there that work very well. They may not have the high resolution, data logging & sequential injector triggers, but they work well enough considering ease of use and cost. One can easily exceed the cost of the car using "the best way" mods. To some that is the only way to go.

Here is a post by a guy with "motec" (we all know how much that can cost ) http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=136238570&postcount=32

My opinions on this are not to come up with the "ultimate" setup. Just something that will work as well or near stock. Even the stock system is not "perfect". It may not even work well enough at all, so then one can just go back to MAF.

OK, you can bash my post now

 

Jim's way of tuning oem ECU's is the hot ticket if you can figure or hire someone to do it. Then you have the most robust systems. They run for 100ks miles with well thought out designs for everything from location to heat parameters. OEM is durable. A big problem I have is when I have tried aftermarket stuff it always has a short life. There are all kind of issues like ECU's getting worky because a trunk location fluctuates in temps too much, vibration killing the parts, all kinds of strange things you do not expect. If you do it jim's way and it is just a chip change you got the world handed to you. If Jim or ND can custom tune it I say let them at it!