Schumacher On Being The Number One Driver

Many people make this comparison but Senna was different in that regard than Michael. Even he didn't enjoy such treatment regarding his teammates by the team. I would think it would be a bit embarassing. MS never seemed to feel this way. To me he was needlessly ruthless. RB was never really in his class.

 

So why not just give them the title every year and not bother running the races at all? They aren't the only ones making a huge investment. It's called a sport and Ferrari was going to win either way. So what investment were they protecting? It was just plain wrong and bad for F1.

What exactly are you talking about in that last paragraph? 04 to 05?

 

Luis , team orders have been around FOREVER! Remember when Fangio was given his teamates car so he could finish the race and win the championship?Of course not. If a championship comes down to a point or two and YOU are the team principal, your'e going to tell me your'e not going to have some one move over? PLEASE! If you don't like Schumacher or any other driver , just say so, but don't be blind to the facts and history. your'e entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

 

P.S. and remember, Schumacher , unlike other world champions , Fangio in particular and more recent ones, always went looking for a team where they'd pretty much walk in and win, Schumacher went into a team where they were pretty much losers and helped build the team from scratch. I think he deserves special treatment.

 

The issue is not with team orders at the end of the season for the title. The issue is with team orders at the 6th race of a 17 race season. This is the reason they were banned, thank goodness. Peter Collins was asked to turn over his car to Fangio at Monaco the second race of a 8 race season in 1956. Don't try to give me a history lesson. It is not the same thing. The issue is not with Schumacher or how i feel about him. We all know i'm not his biggest fan, i feel he's overrated, but that just my opinion. The issue was with the way the team was being run. Hopefully all that crap is over now.

 

When you have a racer who's clearly better than the teamate through
offseason testing and qualifing during races, it's only natural to favor one over the other. So then Alonso/Renault are also at fault because Fisi held back the pack in certain races to help his team mate?

 

You make no sense. Yes, they all make about the same investment and as such they all have the same interest in getting the max out of the race. That is out of each and every one of them.
Your comments suggest that you are pee'd because it was "early" in the season. It suggests that if this had happend in one of the last races you'd be okay with it or at least can understand it.
As such you do not realize that the racing season starts with race 1 not race 16 or 17. Once it is established (as it was in 2002) that Michael is the #1 driver that year team orders prevail and ANY team will do anything necessary to ensure their best shot at the year end Championship. You start thinking about a Championship before the first race is done and you don't stop thinking about it till the last race is over

We all agree that the move over was not perfectly executed but it was done for a reason and if you look at things objectively you understand why Ferrari made Rubens move over.

And yes I was talking 04 to 05 (obviously)

 

If RB was never in his class then why would you be so keen on trashing MS's success and the "move over". If he was not in his class there should not be any hard feelings for telling a second tier driver to let the first tier to go up front.

Your comment makes no sense.

Further Senna was not different at all. He was a hard arse on the track, in the pits. A true bully to other drivers.

All I can say: SO WHAT! You are talking about the 20 best drivers in the world. Only those that make room to race will win. get over it.

 

It is natural to have a number one and two driver, that is a part of racing. But to have your number two driver move over for you number one driver when the season isn't even at halfway point when the number two has the number one beat, is not only fair to your number two, it's also not fair to the fans. When the title is at stake then anything goes but it was not at that point. In fact, MS had won 4 out of the first five races to that point and had no one challenging him. How can anyone justify that?

 

The one that makes no sense is you. How can you compare having a a number two move over for anybody early in the season when the number one is clearly dominant and under no real threat. Take off you rose colored glasses. All the stuff you are talking doesn't change the fact that the race was basically fixed and cheated the fans or a proper winner. As for 04 to 05, rules change, it could go into anyone's favor you wouldn't be *****ing if it went in Ferrari's favor. It was probably for the same reason why MS was one of the worst starters in 93 and suddenly became the one of the best starters in 94. It was called Option 13 if i rememeber right.........................

 

So to you, having another driver move over for you is a fair and square win? Rubens had Michael beat all day then the team had Rubens move over so this adds to Michael's success? And I don't make sense? Man, please. Further more Senna was a hard ass on track, he had to be, he had better comp all of his career than MS did. MS was needlessly ruthless. I don't ever remeber Prost or Berger for that matter move over for Senna. As a matter of fact Senna moved over for Berger once. Actually called on the radio and asked Ron Dennis if he wanted them to exchange positions.

 

so nobody ever asked schumacher in past interviews about asking on being the number one driver and/or approving who his teammate should be, until now?

 

I am sure if you do a search online you will find plenty of interviews that will take the same point and it is merely another argument. Ron came about the interview in a German newspaper and posted it for info reasons.

Other than to some it was never "news" that there is a first and second and that teamorders exist, have existed and will exist.

 

If you read properly you see that I said I did not like the way it was done. You have an issue with when in the season it was done. As an exec I will do the same exact thing any day if I had to make the decision. We were at race 6 or 7, pretty close to mid way. Take this years race and FA was unbeatable till....mid race when Ferrari all of a sudden came back and almost took the title from them. I bet Flavio kicked himself in the nuts from August to October for not giving team orders early in the season to ensure that ALL points possible went to the first driver, FA instead of almost losing the Championship.

As I said, if you had a $250 MILLION investment at stake (which is roughly 10 times the annual profit of the company) I am sure you would laugh about the monday morning crew chiefs that know it all better but have absolutely no Dollar invested into this effort.

My last post on this since you do not get it.

 

All of a sudden because the FIA meddled but that's a whole other subject that has been beaten to death. Flav didn't need any team orders, Fisi wasn't usually near Alonso anyway. You don't get it either so were gonna have to agree to disagree. It's one thing to run a business like that, another to run a sporting team like that.

 

well he was usually behind him but GF did win a race and finish higher in the points then FA a couple times this year. Cavallino's point was that it was a good idea for Flav to use team orders so those points could have gone to FA, and they could have had a more secure hold on the championship late in the season. It seems to me your holding a double standard here. Your slamming Michael and Ferrari for using team orders, when team orders have been utilized by others. Several times by the way from Mclaren to aid Mikka, and no it didn't "only happen once" as you said in the other thread, when refering to my mention of RD actually having DC and JV move over for Mikka.

 

RD had DC move over for Mika so he could get his first win and the second time as a part of a gentleman's agreement By DC and Mika saying who ever lead into the first turn would win. DC was told of some soft of issue either with Mika's pit stop or his car and DC let him through because of the agreement, if i remember right. It's one thing to use team orders for things such as a first win (which i would have to disagree with because that would cheapen the win in my view) or for a title with the season winding down. This is understandable and a part of racing. For them to have have RB move over for Michael with a huge lead and no real threat for the title in 02 is hard to justify. Even in you say well this year Alonso had a huge lead and so on, the Ferrari was still fast and a clear challenger as early as Imola. It was clear that MS would be the main opposition once they got the car right and they did and were. The title fight this year was fantastic. In 02 no one was even close. I don't see how this can be justified by any means.It only made an already boring year even more so

 

I say BS!

While I agree the team will naturally support the faster guy, there is no doubt at all that Ferrari was built around MS. And I bet that was part of the 95 (?) deal that helped him move to them from Benetton.

Also at no time in his career has MS shown that it mattered to him how he won, just that he won ... thus adding 2 + 2 => it was part of the contract!

Pete

 

well, at the end of the day, schumi was fast, like it or not. yea, he did on certain occasion beaten by a teammate, like massa this year, rubens a few times. but most of the time, he's always faster and way ahead of everyone.

 

Brian, I believe you are right but why did the team manage thier second drivers in the way they did? MS would have beaten any of them, why was the team run this way? I would have loved to see MS fight RB or Irv on those days that they were on, and not had the team move them over for MS. It took all the sport out of it for me. BTW, I don't really buy MS's story about never asking for this, but i'm giving him the benefit of the doubt.

 

The teams are run this way because they're million dollar operations and they need to be as anal and pedantic as possible. During those years your talking about, the FIA should have just instituted a ballast system or somthing haha.

 

No way, Mclaren and Williams always showed they could win with Equal Number 1 drivers. As Luis and Pete have pointed out there was a reason Ferrari was setup in the Schumacher ERA as it was. Kudos to MS for truly running the team and having his people at the Helm. However, he was fastest as teammates were never truly WC Caliber. Look at each teammate prior or latter after Ferrari and how they did in comparison to the guy in the next car. If you look at the past true champions (Prost, Senna, Mansell) would always dominate the next guy regardless if they had the fastest car. Michael in my opinion would have done the same with no problem, but he never allowed it.

 

I agree 100% with you Tony. Because of the way the team was set up we were deprived of any chance of a good fight between teammates. Before the MS era, the only Ferrari team orders was in case of a 1-2, the cars would hold thier positions to avoid taking each other out. Senna/Prost may have been volatile but it was incredible racing. In 88, you didn't even care that McLaren won all but one race.

 

Exactly, Enzo didn't care who won, as long as Ferrari won. Better to show the strengths of the car (i.e. McLaren 88, Williams 81) than the driver running the team. Austria 02 was a sham and it was a day that made F1 a joke. Ferrari should have been banned for at least two races for allowing their number one driver to Run the team and make a mockery out of F1.

 

Yeah and Enzo and all other team owners that have two cars in the field will tell you: "don't $@*&ing crash into OUR other car. Stay clear of them. "
Why? Becasue of two team mates fight it out they eventually touch and take out one or both cars, hence not getting ANY points for the constructor championship, hence a $250Million investment goes down the drain just so you can look at "good racing between team mates"

I am sorry guys you are all living in memory lane.