Daytona Valve Problems | Page 2 | FerrariChat

Daytona Valve Problems

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Telerding, Oct 11, 2006.

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  1. dbcooper

    dbcooper Formula Junior

    Feb 7, 2005
    281
    Costa Mesa,Ca.
    Full Name:
    Tim Romero
    Ah Yes! another 1 valve,1 piston repair turns into a full rebuild(one can always hope)Hope for the best but never rule out the worst,been there,done that.
    it seems that every time that I have been involved with similar situations ,we have had 2 possible destroyed parts/cost scenarios."Well,if it didnt get too hot,and the metal bits didnt travel too far and if the oil level wasnt too low,then its probably only gonna cost this to fix.""However,Theres also the possibility that these things did happen and if so,we will probably have to have machined and /or resurrected maybe half of the unobtainable parts"Without exception,the worst case scenario reared its ugly head.from hopeful quickie fix to long term,hi digit rebuild in no time.kinda like the Jag E-type cylinder head gasket and resurface job that became a $100,000.00 ground up restoration/resurrection/rebuild.Good luck.
     
  2. davehelms

    davehelms F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2004
    4,629
    Full Name:
    Dave Helms
    Sounds like someone needs a hug, and for 100,000.00 had better have a house full of trophys
     
  3. Telerding

    Telerding Formula Junior

    Sep 30, 2004
    362
    Santa Maria/CA
    Full Name:
    Tom Elerding
    #28 Telerding, Dec 2, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    At long last, my Daytona engine with the broken valve goes into the experts to get rebuilt.
    A lot of research with many helpful people finally led me to a choice of where to have it done. I thank the following for their time and advice:

    Bill Badursky: Lowest in estimated price; my first choice if he were on the west coast. My inability to find adequate shipping insurance for
    the motor forced me to pick closer to home. Thanks Bill for all your support on multiple web-sites!

    Tom Shaughnessey: Generous offer to fit my engine into his tight schedule via night work. Thanks Tom for all your help and advice!
    You are another resource we all appreciate.

    Norbert Hoffer: Numerous recommendations; his busy schedule didn’t fit with mine.

    John Bagioli/Fiorano Motors: Also had multiple recommendations. Clearly knows his business. His association with Bill Rudd is a plus.
    Estimate was higher than others, but did include engine installation in the car.

    Jack Bianchi: Local to Santa Barbara/Santa Maria: My initial choice, but schedule constraints (his/mine) and distance he would have
    to commute to my house to work led me to my final decision, below:

    I picked Carobu Engineering in Costa Mesa, CA to do the rework. Their “average cost” estimate was mid-range. They clearly have the experience.
    I had made a shop visit just months before the engine broke; at the time they had 6 12-cylinder engines in rebuild.
    A big plus for me was their engine dyno, which would allow run-in and operational check before delivery back to me.

    I really appreciate the time spent by the individuals above, and others, during this process. Any of those gentlemen would have done a first rate job.
    Those of us who have older Ferraris are lucky to have such knowledgeable people in the industry.

    I’ll post what happens on this in the coming weeks. Hope to have the engine back in two months or so. Time will tell!

    Tom
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  4. Telerding

    Telerding Formula Junior

    Sep 30, 2004
    362
    Santa Maria/CA
    Full Name:
    Tom Elerding
    #29 Telerding, Apr 27, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Yesterday I rescued my engine from Carobu Engineering. It has been a long time, caused by very late delivery of the intake and exhaust valves from Italy.

    But the wait was worth it. We ran a number of dyno tests with two exhaust versions, and various jet and advance settings.

    Best overall run was 415 HP at 7200 rpm. This was with air cleaner off.

    Best run with air cleaner on was 395 HP at 7200. To say the least, I am very satisfied with the work and the performance of the engine. Bert at Carobu is a real wizard. And Tate came very close to his original cost estimate.

    The engine was rebuilt with the following: 10:1 compression pistons, flow matched exhaust porting, Crane optical ignition, Carobu's own specifications on the (stock) cam timing; exhaust sytem with center mufflers removed and replaced with X pipe crossovers on each side.

    I have some plots of HP/torque for various conditions I'll post in a bit.

    Now I just have to get the motor into the car and hooked up. Can't wait!

    Tom
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  5. lusso64

    lusso64 Formula 3

    Apr 12, 2004
    1,535
    Simi Valley
    Full Name:
    David
    I think it's time for a new air cleaner design! Those numbers are great and it looks amazing.
     
  6. Telerding

    Telerding Formula Junior

    Sep 30, 2004
    362
    Santa Maria/CA
    Full Name:
    Tom Elerding
    #31 Telerding, Apr 27, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here is a combined hp torque plot for two cases:

    The red is without the air cleaner, and 145 main jets

    The black is with the air cleaner, and optimized with 130 main jets.

    In both cases the torque curves are pretty flat, with the air cleaner case falling off above 6000 rpm. Note that the peak for the air cleaner case is at lower rpm.

    Also note how close things are up to 6000 rpm.

    Tom
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  7. Telerding

    Telerding Formula Junior

    Sep 30, 2004
    362
    Santa Maria/CA
    Full Name:
    Tom Elerding
    #32 Telerding, Apr 27, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Additional pic of the X-pipes made by Burns Stainless in Costa Mesa. Nicely done. Note the test port included for the dyno's air fuel ratio system's sensor. I seem to have reached my limit for posted pictures, so can't add any more. Do I get more space if I suscribe again?
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  8. Telerding

    Telerding Formula Junior

    Sep 30, 2004
    362
    Santa Maria/CA
    Full Name:
    Tom Elerding
    I had a PM regarding cost for this. Here it is:

    The total cost for the job was $31,250. This included:

    Complete rebuild of the motor with all bushings, bearings and seals; new pistons and wrist pins, 10:1 compression; new intake and exhaust valves; new timing chain; carbs rebuilt; water and oil pumps rebuilt; block cleaned ultrasonically and painted; crankshaft and journals cleaned and checked; main bearing line bore check; etc etc etc.

    Teardown of distributors, rework and synchronization of distributor advance curves. Installation of Crane optical pickup system.

    Fabrication and installation of the X-pipes; before and after dyno runs.

    Complete teardown, checkout and rebuild as necessary of the transaxle; turn flywheel, new clutch plate, pressure plate, pilot bearing, throwout bearing, intermediate shaft bearing (very expensive!).

    Ceramic coating of headers; painting of exhaust shields, valve covers and aircleaner with wrinkle paint; fabrication of new starter shield; other miscellaneous extra jobs.

    Significant number of dyno runs for cam, distributor and carburetor checks and optimization.

    I think I got my money's worth. The motor part of this came in just over their original estimate.

    Tom
     

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