Cyclocharger is being tested on 328GTS

LOL.

My Suzuki GN250 motorcycle (work commuter) handbook goes on at great length on how Suzuki designed in swirl in the combustion chamber. This apparently improves combustion by better mixture mixing. This, to me, appears to be where it matters, not where the air enters the manifold.

In the end the Otto cycle engine suffers from massive inefficiencies and modern short stroke engines suffer a lot from incomplete combusion that the long old stroke engines didn't, simply because the fuel burn had a longer time to complete. Suzuki I gues tried to help this with this swirl concept. I have also heard of this concept with diesel engines.

Anyway not long ago I had to remove the head and do some engine work on the poor little Suzuki, and it was the most carboned up engine I have ever seen ... and I regularily thrash the poor thing. Thus I can't see any improvement, as surely if combustion was improved by swirl, there would be less carboning up (???? ... not sure).

Also remember BMW have made the throtte butterfly completely redundant by controlling the lift of the inlet value. Thus we have a better shaped device for swirl (the poppet valve) and we are now only opening it only enough to let what we want in. Very clever.

Great to see people are still thinking though .
Pete

 

VVT, controlled lift: computer controlled valves have been the holy grail in IC engine development ever since computers got small enough to put in cars.

 

I clicked on this thread thinking it was going to be something cool... turns out it's a home-made follow-up to the ever popular "Tornado" deal on T.V... what a let down

 

The tornado air valve doesn't work because when the swirling air
reaches the old style butterfly it is haulted by the valve itself, even
when it is wide open it straigtens out the swirl. Think about it.

dave

 

Cyc. PM'd me and said that is what they did (the correct method) though it wasn't immediately obvious given the first dyno chart (it's not necessary, it should be removed from the site). I went to the web site and saw two links next to the second dyno chart on the web page. Clicking them displayed the individual dynos and they were run correctly, one after the other with only the throttle bodys swapped. My bad

 

For max hp and throttle response build something like that ->
For fuel economy .. i don't know my car runs also without forests.
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Looks very good.
So where do I get something like that?

 

that's neat! a set of counter rotating cylinders. wonder what the flow distruption is though on part throttle. i still think a sleeved iris is the best but it's large and costly.

 

High powered touring cars uses such inlet manifolds arround 330-360hp out of 2.0l 4cyl N/A engines. It can be adapted to the 348/355 heads. But one cost ~$6700 with airbox. So $13400 plus adapters. Used (if can be found, very rare) ~3700-4000$ each. I don't think that this is an option for a normal driver with a street driven car.

 

I don't know any solution of that kind working somewhere. The mainproblem on the most solutions is to get it sealed good and that it doesn't wear fast or stuck after some time like on the old "Flachschieber" carburators dont know the english word .. flat slider carburators? They stuck often so they went away from it.

 

my thought on the sleeved iris is much like the hopper chutes for material dispensing. two parts, one outer mesh tube that is twisted 90* thru linear rotation that would make the 'iris' and an inner silicone sleeve that would be 'smoothing' material. as the iris shut the effect would be a closing cone so velocity would increase accross the 'eye' then return back exiting the cone again. smooth uninterupted air flow.
clear as mudd right?

 

Dave-
You’ve got a more drive & determination than normal folks. Read thru your web site several times. The part I’m struggling with is how the swirling flow will fill the plenum, divide into 8 parts in different directions, AND continue swirling into the chambers. My arm chair guess is that the power increase is from increased airflow thru the (stock) 66mm plenum opening. That is commendable. On the dyno, what was the peak manifold pressure difference between the stock TB & Cyclocharger runs?
Could not the same effect be achieved by opening up the plenum entrance & installing a 75mm single butter fly throttle body? Why would Ferrari install a throttle body that is too small for max hp/tq? Maybe something to do with de-tuning a race motor for street use? Jeg’s & Summit sell a lot of larger than stock throttle bodies for many applications. A very popular easy mod.
Post #59 supports my position that most factory installed plenum/TB combos (even Ferrari’s) are restricting max airflow.
I believe you’re onto something with this swirling flow thing & it needs to be applied. If swirling air inside the intake ports can increase the CFM flow, then someone should make it happen.

How might this work: install permanent vortex generators inside the manifold at each port runner.

Q from PSk;
“This, to me, appears to be where it matters, not where the air enters the manifold”.

To supply the extra air needed, add a larger plenum with a much larger throttle body (of any style).


Fascinating stuff. Thanks for sharing.

 

You are correct that manifolds will need to change and if you look through the web site you will find the word "manifolds" as a link. Open the link
and you will see some inexpensive concept manifolds. The optimum system would
be one valve per cyclinder. One of the great beniefits will be that a very large venturi will work fine for every day driving.
Sorry I don't have those pressure readings.

 

After 9 machine shops I was about ready to throw in the towel on this
project until I ran accross a talented cad engineer and car buff. This is
the new valve with a much improved reversing system. If you want to see an Mpeg of the unit in simulated action go to cyclocharger.com
and click on Newest Valve > Mpeg.

Dave
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Get rid of the bar in the middle of your throttle body opening. That would increase flow.

What you are doing is just opening an ancient throttle body valve faster. You have the same or more flow restrictions in the middle of the throttle body.

What you want, however, is more air coming through the tb. You do that by removing restrictions. For instance, you could slide the tb valve open...in that manner there wouldn't be a big bar going through the center of the tb when the valve was open.

Or you could hinge the tb valve on outside edges.

Or you could do an irish shutter opening like an old analog camera.

 

What year did they run these in DTM???

 

The shown inlet manifold isn't from a dtm car. Its a touringcar with a opel/vauxhall engine. Used in the vectra/cavalier and calibra with the c20xe engine wich was produced from 1987 to 1994.

 

Ah, thanks.

So how would one go about finding a used pair? Or would it even be worth is to try and modify it to a Ferrari?