f430 vs 599

when Ferrari brought the 2 599s here for the tour the spokesperson for Ferrari commented he was dissappionted and let down no one paid much notice to the 2 cars, this was at a Case equipment event who is owned by the parent Fiat.

Quite honestly the cars didn't look very good at all in person IMO could have been the dull paint and all the graphics on them but no one paid much attention to them at all.

I have seen a 430 thats been slammed low and had black wheels looked nice, the 430 is more race car looking than the 599 IMO.

Someone posted the original drawings of the 599 from Pininfarina awhile back and it was much more radical looking than the production car, if they made the car to its original drawings it would have been stunning and exotic, too bad

 

<swings thread door open and shouts>

I’d rather have a Porsche!

<slams door shut and runs>




*I’ve seen both in the metal quite a few times in recent weeks, and imo neither capture any emotion like previous models, specifically the 355 and 550 did.

 

I am surprised beyond belief by those that don't think the 599 is gorgeous...I know of no production Ferrari since the 275 that come close to the beauty of that machine! And with a front engine V12 like Enzo loved and a sound that is orgasmic , what more could you ask for...I'll take mine in any color thankyou...

 

There are two kinds of people - those that have actually seen a 599 up close and those that haven't.
Those that have are generally smitten, head over heels and stunned by the looks of the car (we're not discussing performance here, or else nothing else even approaches the 599 as the whole package).

Those that have only seen pictures cannot begin to understand the perfection of the form, where every curve and line makes sense as a whole. You can pick apart any element, but this is a car that, in the metal, is simply perfectly conceived.

Personallly I am completely amazed by the way that Castriota at PF got everything so right. The car is large on paper, but in the flesh it's just right. I fit in it without feeling the space is too cramped or too airy or too anything. It is just right.

It looks right in the same way that a 250 SWB looks right and a Jag E-type looks right. There is simply, IMVHO, no way to improve this car.
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599. In perso it's a very pretty car. 430 is just a 360 with a facelift.

 

599 for sure. It has been sculpted, and has some edge to it.

The 430 is too much of a bubble, designed by engineers in a wind tunnel, lacking heart & soul. Too generic. C'mon it's supposed to be italian.

 

it amazes me when I realize these new Ferraris lack of an UNIQUE HEADLIGHT TREATMENT

as they don't need em.

they are so intense when it comes to carrozzeria design that an outstanding headlight is unnecesary and would make them look busy.

that explains their boring headlights ...and tail loghts too .
while most cars are designed bored and poorly and they tried to demand attention by adding complex plastic lenses or lights

I hope my message gets understood

 

How about a side pic of the rear 1/3rd? Also a pic at center level of the very back from behind. Thanks.

 

F430.

The 599 looks like it has a Panoz front end with a Lexus rear end.

 

Did I say I still want one? They are hot and I agree with the 275 comment. The front end looks great.

 

See the first post in this thread.

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=131410&page=2

 

I guess I'm the third type, then. I just got back from Ferrari of San Diego, where they have a black/black 599GTB sitting in the prep area, with the same wheels in your photo. Honestly, I was bored looking at it after about 5 minutes.

Yes, it looks better in person than in photos. It should look good. It's a Ferrari, and a damned expensive one. But it's not terribly original, with ghosts of the last Supra, hints of Mitsu Eclipse and other cars mixed in. The roofline is appealing - very tight, and a nice bend overhead that lends it some interest. The rump is too heavy, and would probably look worse in brighter colors.

You end up looking at the car as bunch of interesting details, but the whole never quite seems to come together. I like the buttresses, for example, but in reality they're tiny. It has small hood vents, that are interesting, but not a bad-ass menacing scoop like the 550/575M. The headlights are Elise-like, and pleasing, but they look undersized, whereas the 550/575 lights are stunning.

The seats are impressive - nice mix of Daytona style over carbon fiber, about the best I've seen.

All the LCD/digital readouts on the dashboard look far more Japanese than Italian.

The whole magnetism of the car seems to come down to how expensive it is. For those who like talking about how so-and-so paid so much to get his first, etc., the 599 is interesting. If I were going to buy an exotic GT car today, though, Aston Martin makes a handsomer car. I like the 599, but it really didn't get my pulse racing. (Not that it matters - I don't have $400K sitting around to buy one, so Ferrari NA probably doesn't care...)

In response to the original post I'd say the F430 would get the nod. There are some details that could be improved, but overall is has a kind of fluidity to it that makes it look like an exotic. The 599 is a sharp car, but it doesn't look exotic to me.

 

Whenever I hear comments along the lines of "Ghosts of a Supra" or "Corvette like" or "elements of a Mitsu" I have to smile.

Where on earth do you think those cars developed their design elements from? There is not an original Japanese design anywhere. They make marvelous cars, but specialize in cloning Italian and German designs.
Ferraris look like Ferraris. They don't pay homage to any other brand and if you ever see something on a Ferrari that looks like another brand, it's just the design elements coming full circle and returning back to where they originated from.

 

599<F430<360 Spider<SuperAmerica. 599 needs to look more sporty or aggressive.

 

I agree that the Japanese car companies specialize in cloning designs, but to say that Ferrari designers aren't influenced by anyone (even subconsciously) is ridiculous.

 

I really don't recall saying anything about influences on design. I'm talking about copying.
There is a MASSIVE difference between being influenced by things you see such as perfume bottles or rock formations or anything else, but to outright copy a design is mostly a one way street from original European design to Japanese clone. The only car makers trying to copy the Japanese (and badly at that) are the US brands with cars like the Lincoln Zephyr being indistinguishable from a generic Accord/Camry mid size sedan.

 

599 looks fab...and my take on the 'handsome' Martins, is that they are boring...all look the same, with not so adventurous lines...straight, soap bar with bulging fenders, blocky, 'thick', designs....nice looking interiors for sure, but sheet metal clean to look at at first, then starts to get old immediately.. but of course that's just me...and then there's the performance aspect...no comparisons there..

 

...Those who've drunk the Kool Aid, and those who haven't?

I, personally, fall into at least a third catagory as one who has no financial interest but who enjoys and appreciates an esthetic discrimination.

I accept your challenge...

...You can't be serious: Those are both the result of clear-minded singular design, rather than focus group-driven mass appeal.

I've got seven as fast I can type.

Fix...

1: The overwrought front end (simple is elegant, TR Pontoons evoke drum brakes to the cognoscenti)
2: The anime Vette side vent (very Mitsubishi)
3: The Z-06 sourced side scoop (sometimes imitation is merely slothfulness)
4: The glue-gunned-on flying buttresses (fearful of losing sales to mid engined V-12s? Why executed by Yugo?)
5: The unfinished rear (simply no excuse)
6: The ticky-tacky dash vent/control pod treatment (cheap, cheap, cheap, in a Scion, much less a $250-450k Ferrari)
7: The Nintendo instrument panel ('now, even a poorly socialized idiot can drive one!').

"Pinin Farina" dropped the ball on this one and Ferrari are too busy making up the bottom line by selling yellow boxed SF-badged turds to care. But, as long as the market premium is high enough, The Emperor's Couture crowd will praise anything to the high heavens.

The performance speaks for itself but, as a design and considering esthetics, the "Zeta-Zero Sei" is an abomination of communal input with conflicting and poorly executed disparate elements. IMHO, quite unlike the 250 GTB or even the E-type, it is not of a whole, it is a poorly thought out, if carefully marketing survey-validated, melange of styling cues and evocations. It manipulates by using a well understood and mass-market integrated design vocabulary rather than, as Ferrari/PininFarina has so often done before, creating a new design vocabulary.

Take the "Ferrari" badges and prancing horses off of one, some 56(?) at last count, and my bet is the 98th percentile person will not identify it as a Ferrari, certainly not as a PininFarina design. Park one next to a 250 GTB, a Daytona, and/or even a 575, and it looks like the mother ship from 'Fast And Furious IV: The Blind Leading The Blonde'.

...Even, perhaps especially, with SF badges placed back on the fenders.

 

You are 100% right...a small Ferrari, like a 355, with a 12 cylinder engine is my dream car!

 

F430 for me.

There's just something about its looks that attracts me!

 

don't think too hard...ah, that old take off the badges and it could be any car idea...um, not really. and my bet is the 98th percentile person won't identify anything as anything. ok, now you can go back to reading your car design(and how cars of the past are so much nicer looking) books...

 

The 599GTB is supposed to be the bloodline descendant of the great Ferrari V12s, so his comparison is actually an apt one.

I've never been smitten with the E-type, so I don't agree with his whole post, but the new A-M DB9 and the recent Ferrari 575M are both more cohesive designs.

Look, there are only 80 (?) or so coming to the States, so it hardly matters what we think. They're all sold. I think you get astounding performance for a quarter million, but aesthetically it seems like Pininfarina has been groping around a bit after the magnificent 550/575M.

To me, the 599 seems like the next 456 -- a handsome car, but not a poster dream car. I think we all respect the incredible performance, and love it for being a Ferrari. It just isn't an icon in the vein of the Daytona, Boxer/308, Testarossa or (probably) 355.

 

I agree though I think I'm part of the minority. opus10583 also hits it on the head, in regards to the blind love of Ferrari's new designs.

I have a feeling that if Protons were badged as Ferraris 75% of you would love them

 

Can't agree more. I had little appreciation for the 599 before I saw it with my own eyes.

Black hides the angles and ascentuates the curves.