Heel-Toe video: My first attempt at making an instructional video

Huh?

 

+1

I'm with you, Brian.

Don't know any professional or accomplished amateur that doesn't h&t (or at least knows how to do it in their sleep).

Don't tell me NASA (the origin of the acronym HPDE, at least around here) teaches that this technique is not at least recommended...

Heck, we prefer novices not try and learn h&t at the track, too much going on just starting out. But by the time people are at the intermediate level, it is what separates the merely casual from the good student...

-Peter

 

Indeed, Peter. In our accredited schools, if you can't adequately H+T, you don't pass.

 

I like this video - but you need to get about one minute into it and then the footwell camera comes in - it's one of the 3 or 4 at the bottom of the screen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TayveXhXV_g

Regarding air horns - are all Fiamm air horns about the same ? I mean, to replicate the Ferrari sound ? Duals or triples ?? Is Fiamm still the horm of choice in this respect ?

 

<chuckle> Agreed. I'm not really splitting hairs. Nor trying to be argumentative. I just don't want "Noobs" to think that they have to work on H&T at once.

Agreed. Where the distinction comes in is in how we define "fast." You and I (probably?) think 10/10ths defines fast and "fast" cannot be achieved w/o perfect H&T execution.

But one may drive their vehicle quite fast indeed w/o rev matching of any kind.

OTOH, a Noob (i was one not so long ago, you'd be surprised) might think that fast is, for example, simply low lap times.

Yes; IME as well.

Not sure what you mean by stating (if I read it correctly) that Intermediate is not much of a skill level jump from Novice (even if one compares intermediate to advanced).

I know .... there are a lot of greay areas because we classfy our students by subjective means/standards .... primarily. Ie; No lap timing at HPDEs, right. <chuckle>

To the OP: Sorry about the threadjacking. And thx for the vid. I've been learning how to edit instructional HPDE vids .... and have purchased a few over time. If you'd like to PM me I would be willing to share my ops w/u.

Regards,

Richard.

 

100% agreed.

Richard.

 

Ahh, Heel-toe downshifts. Good vid. Is it strange that I heel-toe almost every downshift for the past 2 years? Like even in the grocery store parking lot... haha.

 

If you get a chance to watch the movie Grand Prix there are some great segments of the drivers heel and toeing

 

Thank you for that video - Youtube is great isn't it.

Next thing to buy - air horn for the 308. Why? Just because.

 

No, neither heel-toe shifting nor double clutching is required with Synchromesh. That said, your Synchromesh will last longer if you double clutch. And no, Synchromesh does not keep the revs up. Did I confuse you? Read on...

Heel-toe shifting is not related to Synchromesh or double clutching. Heel-toe shifting is simply a skillful maneuver that allows you to brake and downshift at the same time. Let's forget about braking for a moment and think about downshifting and double-clutching and Synchromesh.

Think about how a manual transmission without Synchromesh operates. There is a main shaft that is driven by the engine when the clutch is engaged. This main shaft has teeth on it that mate with the teeth on whatever gear is selected. When the mainshaft is engaged with another shaft, they are spinning at different speeds (unless you are in a direct overdrive gear) because they have different diameters and thus different numbers of gear teeth. If you were to disengage them and each shaft maintained its respective speed, it would be easy to re-engage them again without "grinding" gears. If, however, you bring two geared shafts together and their speed ratio is not correctly matched, then they will "grind" while one of the shafts is slowing down or the other is speeding up or both. Then the teeth will mate and the "gear shift" has been completed. Obviously this grinding wears down the teeth and also deposits bits of metallic particles in your gear oil - not good. There are two ways to fix this... the action of double-clutching or the feature of Synchromesh.

Double clutching is a method of down-shifting that allows the driver to speed up the main shaft before he attempts to engage it with a lower gear. This avoids the above problem. It is done as follows:
1) Dis-engage clutch (depress clutch pedal)
2) Shift into neutral
3) Engage clutch
4) Blip accelerator to spin up main shaft to a higher speed
5) Dis-engage clutch
6) Shift into lower gear
7) Engage clutch

Double clutching takes a fair amount of practice to master so that it can be done quickly and becomes a habit.

Synchro-mesh was invented to circumvent the need for double-clutching and it's operation has already been explained in a previous post. Synchromesh DOES NOT "keep the revs up". It simply allows the main shaft to slow down without grinding the gear teeth. Note the slow down part. The correct gear is now engaged by the main shaft is still turning too slow.

If the down-shift is performed without double-clutching, the revs will come up (AFTER the Synchromesh has done its job and the gear shift has occured) by either engaging the clutch and letting the car's momentum overcome the engine's momentum (this is what the Lotus driver demonstrated first) or by blipping the accelerator while the clutch is still dis-engaged (this is what the Lotus driver demonstrated next, before he showed heel/toe).

The Lotus driver didn't demonstrate double-clutching (for good reason because it would have confused the issue).

If you are in a hurry (racing) and are coming into a turn and need to brake and downshift at the same time, then that is what heel/toe is for.

So, in summary, to heel/toe you need Synchromesh. (Well I suppose you could heel/toe while double-clutching but that would be very awkward.) Synchromesh allows you to downshift without double-clutching. It is the "blipping" of the accelerator that keeps the revs up during heel/toe. And... if you want to save wear on your Synchromesh, don't use it, double-clutch instead. Beside it sounds cooler...

 

A lot of discussion about who needs to know how to do it, but not much on why. I did the HPDE for a long time, and rarely needed it on the track I regularly drove at the level I was at; I drove a different track where it was virtually necessary - I kept locking up - and ever since, as some above mentioned, I do it everywhere, all the time, in every manual car I drive. It also led to me replacing my OEM rubber pedal covers with new OEM rubber b/c the old ones were glassy and somewhat slippery (not really a problem when you aren't H:T).

One other observation - I didn't watch the video - but many use the traditional technique, really cranking their ankle over and down to blip. I can't for two reasons - I'm tall, so my legs (on some cars) get caught under the steering wheel, and secondarily I shattered my right ankle 22 years ago, and it just won't do that. I use the half and half technique: putting the left side of my right foot on the brake, and rolling the other on the loud pedal when necessary.

 

"I use the half and half technique: putting the left side of my right foot on the brake, and rolling the other on the loud pedal when necessary."

Most people I know do that. I do that and I've got short legs. It's true that once you start doing it, it's automatic (pun intended)!

-Peter

 

Short version:

When dowshifting engine speed (ie; gearing) must match road speed (ie; revs per mph). If not wheel lock-up and/or over-revving, perhaps past redline, WILL ensue.

The most efficient method, producing best peformance, is to H&T. As shown in the OP's vid (thx again dude).

Another method is to brake to a speed which will result in engine speed matching road speed (aka; "rev-matching"). Or even less than road speed.

Braking (only) to rev-match is not only inefficient .... it's also imprecise. But it does work.

FYI: It's easy to tell when a proper H&T has been executed. The vehicle will not speed up or slow down after the exercise (ie; dowbshift) has been completed.

A good way to practice H&T is to accelerate a vehicle to, let's say 60mph in top gear, and execute one or two or more (depends on vehicle) downshifts, in succession (ie; NOT from 6th to 3rd, but from 6th to 5th, then 5th to 4th, etc). Then upshift normally and do it again .... over and over and over.

I think it's obvious that an empty road under near perfect conditions is best! Cool? ;-)

Depends. Please see my previous post. Ie; Noobs don't need to worry about H&T.

Obviously, you weren't braking properly or you wouldn't have needed to H&T for rev-matching.

Varies. I have noticed that European drivers favor the side of the foot and Japanese drivers prefer the heel. Both work fine!

I prefer the Japanese method. I believe it's less prone to error.

Have you thought about replacing the pedals, etc?

Anyway, HTH.

Regards,

Richard.
(the artist formerly known as ronin <lol>)

 

Those japanese drivers probably have pretty small ankles (and feet) compared to me and you. It required to much thinking to move my foot that much, so I just do the aforementioned side of the foot method. I will say, though, that I can see the tendency for error, because you have to "space" your foot across the pedals--your right foot is never completely on the brake pedal when you do it. I'm kind of set in my ways now, though.

 

I agree Japanese method is best; it just doesn't work for me. The risk with the 50/50 method is that your foot can slip off the brake - which can be really, really bad on the race track.

Yes, I could have used the brakes "correctly" as you put it, then downshifted, then turned in - except that would have resulted in a truly bad lap time. It was obvious to me that the ability to keep the car under control, brake, and downshift - all concurrently - was necessary, and this particular circumstance - the track I was at - made it clear that the only way to do what needed to be done was to H:T.

I was locking up because I wasn't rev matching. Since at my home track I could usually brake, then downshift (at the level of driving I was at back then) - there was enough time to do this "conventionally" - it wasn't obvious how necessary the skill was in general.

It does make driving on the street a bit more fun, too.

To practice, I likewise would suggest empty roads (obviously), but I would suggest doing it entering a corner - just make sure your starting speed is a speed you can safely carry through the turn if you don't brake at all - then practice working the 3 pedals harmoniously.

 

Great vid and great discussion going on!!!


I have a problem that I'm hoping someone here can fix, my Audi A4 has terrible pedal placement for H/T shifting can someone loan me there F-car so that I can practice on an appropriate vehicle? ;-)

But seriously the A4 and my feet just can't do a good heel/toe. As stated the only way for me to do it is half and half method which more times than not results in the brakes coming out form under my feet... dangerous...

I guess I have no choice but to get a Ferrari now. ;-)

 

The fastest way to demo this is to run up the car in a straight line, push in the clutch, downshift, let the revs fall off, then pop out the clutch. The whole car lurches. That equates to stress at the contact patch: a spike on the friction circle.

It also means that students can practice rev matching by itself, before complicating matters by heel/toe at the same time.

If you wanted to be dramatic for video, you could do this on an icy parking lot -- an *empty* one, with lots of run-off area. In fact, poor traction surfaces are a good place to practice basic skills.

It depends on the car. The 328 works just fine by the side/side method for me -- I'm 6'4" with big feet. So side/side is actually the most natural pedal position for me. I never feel there's any risk of "slipping" off the brake pedal. (But I'm picky about what shoes I drive in.)

The US market EVO was stretched for us "big butt" americans, and the pedals are further apart. I can h/t using the twisted ankle method, but it doesn't flow as naturally as in the Ferrari. (And between the turbo lag and the anti-"pop" damper in the clutch hydraulics, it's hardly worth the effort ... it's nearly impossible to get a smooth shift in an EVO --- Clarkson had that one right.)

The Alfa ... I could dislocate an ankle trying to h/t the Spider. The brake pedal bottoms out about 3 inches above the gas. I haven't found a way to adjust the gas pedal height on my Spica car.

 

Hey! I've got an NOS Shankle H&T kit for Spica cars on the shelf! Hah! You're not the only one who's had that problem... <grin>

-Peter

 

"my Audi A4 has terrible pedal placement for H/T shifting can someone loan me there F-car so that I can practice on an appropriate vehicle? ;-)"

Actually, I've found that my Porsche 944 has better pedal placement for H/T than my 456. Simple fix will be a set of aftermarket pedals (I've been hinting) that will bring my ankle closer to the accelerator. I measured and the difference is only about an inch; surprising that that would make a noticeable difference but it does.

PS: Outstanding video!

 

Yes, I race a 951. I H:T all the time (road and track) using the 50/50 method; I had one slip, one time, in the 951 - It was a combo of bad shoes and bad pedals. I switched to my other Pilotis, which made a difference. I also replace the 19 year old glassy rubber pedal covers with fresh new OEM ones (about $3 per pedal; probably the best "upgrade" I've made). That also makes a difference. I find the pedals in that car well placed. My shoe size is a 10/11.