F430 Dyno Testing has started. | FerrariChat

F430 Dyno Testing has started.

Discussion in '360/430' started by Philip in AL, Dec 19, 2006.

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  1. Philip in AL

    Philip in AL Formula Junior

    Dec 16, 2004
    338
    Birmingham, AL
    #1 Philip in AL, Dec 19, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    This morning we started the testing. The idea is to get a good base, followed by a run with the BMC filters, then with the Hyper-Flow cats and finally with Oxytane (fuel liberator) added.

    A few things I noticed immediately:
    1) The car will not go into gear unless the rear hatch is closed (even if you hold in the switch on the rear hatch.
    2) you MUST have the CST switched off!
    3) you must spay the tires with the "sticky stuff"; each run, or you end up smoking the tires.
    4) you have a limited amount of time before you encounter "heat soak"

    Observations:
    1) These cars put out a lot of Hp! It is almost impossible to stop tire slippage!
    2) Since I do not care what the total Hp is (it's at max at 8,500 rpms), we cut off at about 7,800. At that point, the peak Hp was 460. I'm sure we could have hit 490 in the remaining 700 rpms.

    We used a drive loss factor of 16%. We calculated that by reading that the peak Tq (according to the manual) was x amount at 5,250 rpms (I think its 5,250, I don't remember now). so we ran the base with no conversion for loss, then we plotted the tq at 5,250 rpms and adjusted the conversion factor to give us within 1lb of the quoted tq.

    Anyway, the next test will be with the new parts added one by one. If anyone has any suggestions on a different factor, please let me know.
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  2. SP_wEaZeL

    SP_wEaZeL Formula Junior

    Aug 23, 2004
    367
    Wow, I've dynoed 2 F430's and never did they smoke the tires. What type of dyno are you using? I've also done 1100HP Supra that never once smoked the tires. That's kind of an odd thing to happen.
     
  3. Philip in AL

    Philip in AL Formula Junior

    Dec 16, 2004
    338
    Birmingham, AL
    It's a "Land and Sea" dyno. It was explained to me that the system uses a two stage water brake on the rollers for load. Sometimes the car tires out accelerate their ability to spin the rollers, which are under load from the water brake system. I was told that another reason can sometimes be due to tires. That's NOT my case; I have the optional tires with a tread wear rating of 140 (they are very sticky).

    In some cars, they have had to add weight to the rear of the car, or in rare cases, tie the rear end down. When tied too tight, it causes smoking also.

    I don't know much about the dyno, but I do know that several Nascar drivers have used it on their cars. In those cases, I've been told that they were trying to scrape out one half of one extra Hp.

    BTW, I was also told that some of those Super Speedway Nascar times have a rolling resistance factor of only 5%!

    On another note, exhaust can make a huge difference. I looked at the dyno sheets of a 69 Camaro that a guy had spent a ton of $ on, but knew something was wrong. The new mufflers, which looked like old Glass packs, were VERY restrictive. They cut the entire exhaust off and rebuilt another. During the process, at one point in testing, they picked up 50 Hp, yet lost 20 Ft lb of torque. The before and after dyno numbers were 280 something hp Vs 400 hp when finished. Not that exhaust alone could lead to a 120 gain, but interesting that exhaust could choke an otherwise good system down by that much.
     
  4. Pingboy

    Pingboy Rookie

    Oct 29, 2006
    13
    Hoover
    Full Name:
    Kirk Brown
    Philip,
    Thanks for the post. Please keep us updated on the different step and performance improvements. Could you provide us with some video of the dyno run? If you want to compare with a Porsche Turbo I’ll be glad to meet you over there.
    Pingboy
     
  5. leead1

    leead1 F1 Rookie

    Nov 29, 2006
    2,828
    Florida
    Full Name:
    Lee
    I find what you are doing interesting. I am anxious to see how the adventure unfolds.

    In the US, the SAE changed the standards on how horsepower can be determined and marketed. The big change is cars certified after 2004 (I think it is 2004 may be Jan 1 2005) are horsepower at the rear wheels not the crank of the engine. This number is more meaningful for car people. There are other changes concerning the type of Dyno etc.

    I do not know whether the F430 was certified on the old rules or the new. Was the hp you quote at the rear wheels or the engine. Your wording seem to indicate the rear wheels.

    Lee
     
  6. Gary(SF)

    Gary(SF) F1 Rookie

    Oct 13, 2003
    3,637
    Los Altos Hills, CA
    Full Name:
    Gary B.
    Gotta be crankshaft, imo. He references an adjustment factor, and the numbers are too high for rear wheel power. As with other dyno results I've seen on the 430, looks like this is the first Ferrari production car that actually makes its advertised hp figures.

    Gary
     
  7. Big Carrot

    Big Carrot Karting

    Nov 28, 2006
    172
    Dallas
    Full Name:
    Crockett
    One of my Vipers had over 1100ft lbs of torque, and it would only occasionally spin the tires on a dyno. It's power came on like a light switch too! I can't imagine a high revving stock Ferrari doing it!
     
  8. Philip in AL

    Philip in AL Formula Junior

    Dec 16, 2004
    338
    Birmingham, AL
    The numbers I quoted are at the crank. Let me rephrase; they are actually numbers in which I took the Rwhp and then used a .16 factor to get crank.

    So 460 at the 7,800 rpms was showing 386.4 hp at the wheels.
     
  9. prior

    prior Rookie

    Mar 13, 2005
    42
    what gear are you doing the pulls in? also, the car should go into gear if you click the latch down for the rear decklid. I've done it on quite a few 430s at work.
     
  10. Philip in AL

    Philip in AL Formula Junior

    Dec 16, 2004
    338
    Birmingham, AL
    Short on time; will post more later. Best run after BMC filters and Hyper-Flow cats was 510hp.
     
  11. Dr. Fuelinstein

    Sep 6, 2005
    3
    Drove my car yesterday. Just superb. Great product. Will take it out of town in Dec and try on the freeway. Keep you posted Mike
    Thanks
    Faisal

    this came emailed November
     
  12. spyderman

    spyderman Formula 3

    Nov 4, 2003
    1,594
    Toronto - Canada
    Full Name:
    Spyderman
     
  13. shawsan

    shawsan Formula 3

    Jul 2, 2004
    1,090
    Vancouver, Canada
     
  14. Philip in AL

    Philip in AL Formula Junior

    Dec 16, 2004
    338
    Birmingham, AL
    I did ultimately get 510 HP at top rpm. We had bad dyno problems!
     
  15. Scuderia980

    Scuderia980 F1 Rookie

    Aug 12, 2006
    3,636
    Mountains--Colorado
    Full Name:
    Dave S. V
    nice! any ideas as to the feasibility of inreasing max rpm's for more hp? some tuners have raised 360's limit to 9k or 10k...i would think the extra stress would be immense...short of bespoke race parts internally, what of reliability when increasing revs?
     
  16. Philip in AL

    Philip in AL Formula Junior

    Dec 16, 2004
    338
    Birmingham, AL
    I think the added stress would certainly shorten the life of the engine. That being said, if you were willing to open it up and beef up the internals then I think you would be fine.

    BTW, today I'm going out to test the car, using a new Vbox gps performance meter. It should be interesting.
     

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