Ferrari F355 Plug Fouling and smoke.... Help?? | FerrariChat

Ferrari F355 Plug Fouling and smoke.... Help??

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by JohnnyF355, Dec 24, 2006.

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  1. JohnnyF355

    JohnnyF355 Rookie

    Dec 22, 2006
    42
    Scotts Valley, ca
    Full Name:
    Johnny
    Hi, I have a 1995 Ferrari F355 Berlinetta. It has 27,000 Miles on it. The past service history to me is unknown.. The problem I am having is cyl #2 is aperently fouling plugs. Let me start from the beggening. I bought the car with 25,000 miles on it about 4 months ago. I drove it about 500 miles to 1000 before I noticed it had an exhuast leak. Before the cat's right at the Y of the headder pipe. It was leaking out of the cat bypass connection so I had my machanic replace that. It has been blwoing white (i think its white, it looks pretty white to me) white smoke out of that bank (1-4) bank out of the leak. Note there is no smoke out the main piples them selves. That looks very clean. So I assumed it might just be that color because its unfiltered exhaust. before the cats. My machanic later noticed it was Not running on cyl #2 He told me to start by replacing the spark plugs. So I have. I replaced them about 4 days ago, I believe. When I pulled the plug out of cyl #2 and it was very fouled all the others looked just fine other then a little warn. Anyway. Even after I attempted to have the exhuast leak fixed it either developed another exhuast leak or it had others that wearn't fixed at the time. So it still blowes smoke out of that side. when high reved. I forgot to mention this it doesn't really do it when idling or driving around town in 3rd or 4th gear. It doesn't seem to smoke any or all at low revs but once in a while if I red line it or high rev it it will smoke even a little at idel. But often it will blow a lot of smoke when high reved. (not out of the exhuast pipes) though not at all that I've noticed just out of the leak... is it normal for the exhuast straight out of the engine to be white??? Also that cyl running has a different sound to it. if I unplug the fuel injector for that cyl That sound is gone. and if I unplug another random well working cyl it still has that sound. Anyway, after that spark plug was replaced and it was still smoking my machanic recommended pulling it out later to see if it had been foulded again. And I just did that and it has been. So I replaced it once again with one of the old plugs that was better then the current fouled plug anyway. And when I fired it up it smoked a little more just starting, that smoke quickly went away. But I guess that was because it wasn't firing before and started again because of the new plug? My machanic also mentioned because it wasn't running for so long the rings may be stuck on that cyl and to give it a chance to break back in. Another machanic mentioned that it might be the valve gides on that cyl. The sound it has to be doesn't seem like it would be anything related to a broken ring so. I don't know. Can anyone give me any better idea of what might be the problem as well as any suggestions?? Thanks. I can attatch a sound clip or pic of the fouled sparkpug if that would help later...
     
  2. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 30, 2003
    17,979
    Savannah
    white smoke is more head gasket / coolant. gray smoke is oil burning, from valve guides and or burned valves and damaged valve seats.

    i would do a compression and leakdown test and pressure test the cooling system to rule out the head gaskets as the problem.

    be aware, if the manifolds were cracked, or there has been a exhaust leak close to the valve, the valve and valve seat can be burned by the cool air rushing in from the leak. i am a 308 guy and have not worked on a 348 or 355, but the basics are still the same.
     
  3. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

    Oct 19, 2001
    16,078
    Arlington Heights IL
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    Kenneth
    Are the spark plugs oil fouled or gas fouled? That's the #1 thing to determine before anything else or you'll be wasting money on pointless tests.

    If it's oil I would suspect valve guides first which your tests will determine; if not that then bad rings. It could be other things too of course.

    If it's gas fouled I would first look at the electical, then fuel injectors. Could be anything as simple as a bad spark plug wire to some fuel delivery problem.

    Ken
     
  4. Ricard

    Ricard Formula Junior

    Jan 23, 2004
    867
    Donington Park
    Full Name:
    Richard C
    I wouldnt go "red lining it" until the issue is solved, have the compression/pressure tests done but you may have to pull the head / engine to have a closer look, Ferrari components are sooooo expensive that if something is wrong, as it obviously is, its best to be on the side of caution for expense limitation.

    Christmas Eve too!

    Good luck.
     
  5. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
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    Mr. Sideways
    Good points. Might there be a third possibility of being coolant fouled (e.g. blown headgasket)?

    The advice in a post above about performing a simple compression and leakdown test seems pretty sound to me.

    In the meantime, look at your coolant and oil. Do you see oil in your coolant and/or water (milky) in your oil?

    Also, is your coolant low or getting lower? How's your oil level?
     
  6. gothspeed

    gothspeed F1 World Champ

    May 26, 2006
    10,244
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    goth
    Fix any exhaust leaks ASAP. I have heard of sticking rings from sitting too long. "Marvel Mystery Oil" is good for loosening things like that up. It is also very good for un-sticking hydraulic lifters. :)

    Though I hope it is not your problem, it could be:

    valve guides, valve seat, head gasket or the rings. :(
     
  7. JohnnyF355

    JohnnyF355 Rookie

    Dec 22, 2006
    42
    Scotts Valley, ca
    Full Name:
    Johnny
    #7 JohnnyF355, Dec 24, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thank you everyone for your help. Attatched is a pic of the org spark plug, the one before I chnaged them. I don't think either fouled plug was ever wet, with oil or anything. just dried on crap. carbon maybe? idk. what does the plug look like to you? As to the question of the old level coolent etc. It has been using a lot of oil. according to the manual its supposed to use so much per 3 or 600 miles? I can't remeber at the moment. But its like up to 2 qt per 600 miles. So I'm not sure it its using more then its supposed to or not. I've never had to put any coolent in it. But, I've never checked it. I will do so soon. I don't how ever think it is using any. And if it was buring a lot of oil or coolent wouldn't smoke come out the exhuast pipes not just the leak?

    Thanks
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  8. Ricard

    Ricard Formula Junior

    Jan 23, 2004
    867
    Donington Park
    Full Name:
    Richard C
    I hate to say this 3 hours before Christmas (UK time) but 2qts per 600miles is WAY too much - my 355 dosnt use any oil worth mentioning.

    Also that plug looks like text book oil fowled to me, its a bit shiney for carbon fowled.
    http://www.4secondsflat.com/plug_chart.html (looks like No.2)

    Could the white smoke be the oil hitting the manifold and instantly frying off?

    I would say you definately need a compression and leakdown and I would have it trailered to the garage to do it - oil is getting in the head somehow and being a 355 that suggests valve guide.

    Keep us posted.
     
  9. JohnnyF355

    JohnnyF355 Rookie

    Dec 22, 2006
    42
    Scotts Valley, ca
    Full Name:
    Johnny
    Thanks and merry christmas too you.

    Yes I know mine probably burns about 2 in 600 miles apx. So would you say yours burns even a qt in 1000 miles? There arent any bax external leaks that I know of, just a little leak on one a seal. but nothing dripping onthe the exhuast that I can see. and nothing on the ground that I've ever noticed
     
  10. DMOORE

    DMOORE Formula 3

    Aug 23, 2005
    1,720
    San Diego
    Full Name:
    Darrell
    The plug is oil fouled. It is just baked onto the plug. My guess is that since it did not burn oil when you purchased it, it is NOT a stuck ring. Unfortunatly that leaves the dredded valve guide problem as the most likely cause.


    Best of luck.

    Darrell.
     
  11. Ricard

    Ricard Formula Junior

    Jan 23, 2004
    867
    Donington Park
    Full Name:
    Richard C
    I didnt put any oil in the car between summer 2005 and summer 2006 annual services - did 3500 miles, level went down slightly but I'm talking maybe half an inch on the dipstick.

    If there is no external leak then the oil is disappearing internally, you have an oil fowled plug, so the oil is getting into that chamber. So you either have a valve sealing issue, ring issue or cracked block/head. Fortunately the block and heads are pretty strong and being a 355 it all points at the valves. You need to park it, chill for Christmas then get to the shop and have them pressure test it etc. I would say nothing you can do until the holidays are over.

    All the best.
     
  12. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 29, 2001
    18,031
    USA
    Ditto, get a compression and leakdown test....but my inexpert opinion is you will need a top end rebuild.

     
  13. JohnnyF355

    JohnnyF355 Rookie

    Dec 22, 2006
    42
    Scotts Valley, ca
    Full Name:
    Johnny
    I bought a compression checker today. With a 10 mm adapter on it and unfortunately still couldn’t get it to screw in to check the compression. But anyway I replaced the plug once again added some “marvel mystery oil” to the fuel. My dad suggested To just put that stuff in, and drive it on the freeway witch was about 5 miles each way at high rpm. (he thought it was a stuck valve or ring as well as the guides) anyway also before I drove it I check the oil reservoir and it was empty, I put about 3 qt of oil in it and it brought it up to the min mark. So I took it on the freeway drove it about 5 miles. It started smoking heavily even more then usual. I later down shifted and punched it to see if it would clear up as suggested by my father, ran it at high revs for a bit. But the smoke was so bad I ran it into 5th for the rest of the way. Witch it then cleared up. When I got off the freeway the 1-4 bank stopped running as it has often done before so I pulled into a gas station as was at least able to determine what side was quitting. By unplugging the coil from each side. So I determined it was the 1-4 bank as I though. This problem continued for a bit I shut it off for a couple of minutes, then fired it back up tried to rev it and it was intermittently cutting in and out and blowing very much smoke car more then ever before. It sounded worse then it ever has before as well. The 1-4 bank started to work. But continued blowing smoke. Out the exhaust pipes. And the leak I thin. I called my dad up because I was afraid to drive it worried I’d hurt it. But ended up driving it back anyway. It smoked and ran like **** when driving it out of the gas station. At a stop waiting to make a U turn the car was buried in smoke. As soon as I got on the freeway and opened it up a bit it blew most of the smoke out. And I drove it all the way back at about 5 to 6 thousand rpm. And accelerated hard a few times. It started to seem like it had more power then its ever had before. And was smoking little to none at 5 and 6 thousand rpm that I could see when it usually does at those rpms. Now on the smoke… the oil reservoir that was at the min mark when I left now indicated it was over the max by about an inch. So maybe it was blowing out this oil? And it was over filled?… Anyway when I got it home it had completely stopped smoking that I could see, on my way back come off of stop’s I could feel the engine was more responsive and more powerful then before. Anyway when I parked it back at house it sounded much better then it has before even from the time I purchased it. I unplugged the #2 cyl’s fuel injector to make sure it was still running and it was. The engine rev’s up quicker now and more responsive to the pedal. And very little smoke now. Far less then it was before. Just a little oil smoke that I could see. When high reved. But nothing like before. And this smoke came from the 1-4 cyl bank. I think from the exhaust leak? I don’t know…. Also probably most importantly the strange sound I mentioned before the #2 cylinder was making, it no longer makes. Engine sounds normal other then maybe a little missing at times (maybe the plug wires?) or fouled #2 plug?

    Anyway from this do you think It could have had a stuck valve or ring that is now unstuck?
     
  14. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2003
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    Read the manual on how to check the oil, IIRC, you are supposed to check the oil on the 355 when it is hot.

    Pull the plug, is it fouled?
     
  15. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
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    Ugh. This is why I keep saying that Ferrari should label all dry-sump model oil caps with:

    "Do Not Check Oil With Cold Engine"
    "Dip Stick Is Only Valid When Engine Is Hot"



    Also, I wouldn't recommend that you run the engine any more at all. Please take the car to a competent shop.
     
  16. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
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    Johnny, did you add all of that oil and unplug/plug the coils and add the Marvel Mystery Oil and everything else all without looking at your coolant?

    With the engine off and cold, shine a flashlight into your coolant. Do you see a sheen on top? Sludge? Dark color? Something other than bright green?
     
  17. JohnnyF355

    JohnnyF355 Rookie

    Dec 22, 2006
    42
    Scotts Valley, ca
    Full Name:
    Johnny
    Good pints. And Ithink it was cold when I checked it that time. But never any other times because I always check it when I'm putting fuel in it. Thanks for the info didn't know it had to be checked hot. (give me a break this is my first ferrari and I am 18. hahah) And Yes until 2 minutes ago I have never checked the coolent lev. Because it never getts hot. and my machanic didn't think it was anthing to do with it but. I just check it. and there is no discoloration. just green. I don't know where the fill mark is so I'll look in the book. But it has coolent. I've had cars with head gasket problems before usually after less then 20 miles the coolent would be empty in many cases. But it does have coolent and I'll find out where the fill mark is. Oh and its not quite bright green I don't think its more like green water. But I'll check that again with my flash light. No slug or anything odd though. I really think if it was a coolent problem I would have run it dry by now. I've drived in more then 2,000 miles in 3 months or less.
     
  18. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2003
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    No Doubt's question was more related to the coolant being contaminated with oil indicating a possible cracked head.

    Don't do anything else until you've read the manual cover to cover.
     
  19. Ricambi America

    Ricambi America F1 World Champ
    Sponsor Owner

    This is a joke, right? We're on Candid Camera, huh?



    I wish I had more Christmas joy in my comments but here goes:

    Stop driving. Put the keys away. Read the manual. Call an experienced Ferrari mechanic and have the car towed there. You are going to further destroy a very damn expensive engine. Your actions are making a bad situation into a bloody nightmare for yourself.




    .
     
  20. JohnnyF355

    JohnnyF355 Rookie

    Dec 22, 2006
    42
    Scotts Valley, ca
    Full Name:
    Johnny
    I have read much of the manual. But must have missed the thing about checking it when its hot. I will bring it to a ferrari machanic as soon as I can afford to. My best bet might be to bring it to canepa design, witch is local to me. And relatively inexpensive compared too sillicon valley auto group. whom wanted 7 to 10 grand for the 30K mile service. Both are well experienced ferrari machanics. Last time it was worked on by canepa they didn't mention that they though it had any major problems but I didn't have them check the engine. Anyway thanks for the help.

    One thing that borthers me is it never shows a check engine light or anything when having these problems.

    I am mostly trying to figure out what the problem or problems is here. To give me an idea how much its going to cost me when I can afford to bring it in.
     
  21. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2003
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    You may want to search "valve guides" and "355" to get an idea.

    Since you're on a budget, you may want to start drinking heavily at this point.
     
  22. JohnnyF355

    JohnnyF355 Rookie

    Dec 22, 2006
    42
    Scotts Valley, ca
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    Johnny
    hahah, thanks, good idea. Well, atleast its having the problems before the 30,000 mile service was done. I figure it won't be as bad since the engine has to be removed for the belt service soon anyway.
     
  23. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2003
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    Hardest stuff in the liquor cabinet. Now!
     
  24. JohnnyF355

    JohnnyF355 Rookie

    Dec 22, 2006
    42
    Scotts Valley, ca
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    Johnny
    haha, plase tell me it won't be that bad!!!
     
  25. JohnnyF355

    JohnnyF355 Rookie

    Dec 22, 2006
    42
    Scotts Valley, ca
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    Johnny
    Anyway... Do you think most of the cost will be on the parts or labor end?
     

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